It isn't his falut every game, but he still shouldn't have gone back out there. Say what you want about decent starts since then. He's supposed to be the Ace and he has 0 wins since then. It was dumb to go back out even if you don't want to admit it.

 

I don't understand why people still consider him the Ace of the staff. Last year Volquez was the ace...this year it's Cueto. Harang is still a fine pitcher...but no longer an ace.

I don't understand why people still consider him the Ace of the staff. Last year Volquez was the ace...this year it's Cueto. Harang is still a fine pitcher...but no longer an ace.

 

I don't understand why you and others think it wasn't a big deal to go back out. He started opening day right? No matter what you want to call him he took the ball 1st. Anyhow here's a break down for you:

 

 

Before going back out after 2 hour rain delay: 64 1/3 innings 24 ER 4 wins not counting rain delay

 

After rain delay: 56 2/3 innings 32 ER 0 wins

I don't understand why you and others think it wasn't a big deal to go back out. He started opening day right? No matter what you want to call him he took the ball 1st. Anyhow here's a break down for you:

 

 

Before going back out after 2 hour rain delay: 64 1/3 innings 24 ER 4 wins not counting rain delay

 

After rain delay: 56 2/3 innings 32 ER 0 wins

 

So pitching on opening day makes you a team ace? Pretty sure Livan Hernandez started opening day for the Twins last year.

 

Harang hasn't put up ace like numbers for two years now. Dusty's fault or not...he's no longer the ace

So pitching on opening day makes you a team ace? Pretty sure Livan Hernandez started opening day for the Twins last year.

 

Harang hasn't put up ace like numbers for two years now. Dusty's fault or not...he's no longer the ace

 

Way to stay off of the real topic. Most teams send their ace out opening day. Or at the very least their most reliable veteran.

 

Ignoring those numbers and going to a different topic is a nice diversion. He was at worst counted on being their 2nd best option coming into the year behind the one year wonder that had their best last year.

So pitching on opening day makes you a team ace? Pretty sure Livan Hernandez started opening day for the Twins last year.

 

Harang hasn't put up ace like numbers for two years now. Dusty's fault or not...he's no longer the ace

Bottom line ... both this season and last, Harang was putting up pretty good numbers before some questionable shenanigans by the manager preceded a stretch where he wasn't very effective.

Bottom line ... both this season and last, Harang was putting up pretty good numbers before some questionable shenanigans by the manager preceded a stretch where he wasn't very effective.

 

Thank you. It's not even disputable.

Dusty Baker ruined good arms with the Cubs and now he is doing it with the Reds. This guy has got to go if the Reds are ever going to contend.

Dusty Baker ruined good arms with the Cubs and now he is doing it with the Reds. This guy has got to go if the Reds are ever going to contend.

Keep in mind Dick Pole was with him in both places also. And Don Baylor gets some of the credit for Kerry Wood

And Don Baylor gets some of the credit for Kerry Wood

Actually, it was Jim Riggleman ...

It isn't his falut every game, but he still shouldn't have gone back out there. Say what you want about decent starts since then. He's supposed to be the Ace and he has 0 wins since then. It was dumb to go back out even if you don't want to admit it.

 

Harang has not pitched all that badly since Dusty's stupid May 25 move. He's no doubt had three bad outings that have inflated his ERA, but has pitched well enough in six other outings that he could have/should have gotten the win. You can't judge his success simply by lack of wins in his record during that stretch.

 

6/4 8 INN 3 ER (Reds lose 3-1 and crank out 3 hits. You don't win many games scoring 1 run).

 

6/10 7 2/3 INN 0 ER (Blown save by Cordero prevents him getting win, though the Reds do still win).

 

6/21 7 INN 3 ER (Once again, Reds score 1 run for him in a 4-1 loss).

 

7/2 7 INN 2 ER (He doesn't get win, but Reds win 3-2).

 

7/7 6 INN 3 ER (He doesn't get win, but Reds win 4-3).

 

7/18 7 INN 3 ER (Yet again the Reds amass one whole run. Very tough to win a lot of games with 1 run in your scoring column).

 

Harang may or may not be the ace of this staff anymore, but he could easily have had 6 wins since the rain-delay game if the Reds had any kind of meaningful offense, which of course, they do not.

 

Sending him out in the rain-delay was yet another ignornant Dustyism, but I don't think it's ruined his arm. BTW, Harang also has a duty to let Dusty known he shouldn't have gone back out in that game. He's a grown man and seasoned veteran pitcher and should have told Dimwit that his arm was tight/sore/whatever and wasn't going back out. He's not a college kid trying to impress a scout . . . .

Way to stay off of the real topic. Most teams send their ace out opening day. Or at the very least their most reliable veteran.

 

Ignoring those numbers and going to a different topic is a nice diversion. He was at worst counted on being their 2nd best option coming into the year behind the one year wonder that had their best last year.

 

We've discussed the topic you're trying to bring up many times here before. You're not going to convince me that ruined Harang this season considering he's had 6 quality starts since then. His fair share of horrible starts are there too. I don't think that's to blame. Last season, on the other hand, you have more of a case.

To put it in perspective shouldn't he have been a senior in college this year? If he were he probably would have been dominant and would have been a top 10 pick. Everyone needs to relax a little w/ him.

 

I believe that college may have helped him develop better. Bailey imo would had probably been a better pitcher today had he gone the college route depending on which school he would had went to. I believe that too many kids sign out of high school, only a few imo are close to ready. I realize that MLB has the minor leagues and all, I just think that Bailey may have been one that would had benifited more from college ball first.

Of course, with the attitude that he seems to have I am not so sure how good he would have been or will be no matter where he is at.

I believe that college may have helped him develop better. Bailey imo would had probably been a better pitcher today had he gone the college route depending on which school he would had went to. I believe that too many kids sign out of high school, only a few imo are close to ready. I realize that MLB has the minor leagues and all, I just think that Bailey may have been one that would had benifited more from college ball first.

Of course, with the attitude that he seems to have I am not so sure how good he would have been or will be no matter where he is at.

You keep raking on him about his attitude but I haven't seen that lately out of him unless I haven't been paying attention. I thought that by all accounts he had been less attitudinal, am I mistaken?

We've discussed the topic you're trying to bring up many times here before. You're not going to convince me that ruined Harang this season considering he's had 6 quality starts since then. His fair share of horrible starts are there too. I don't think that's to blame. Last season, on the other hand, you have more of a case.

 

We discussed it in the past. Now that he has 0 wins and his ERA has gone up by a big number I think it's easier to assume it was dumb to send him back out. He had some quality starts last year after the relief appearance, it doesn't mean he should have pitched in relief last year. It's all a patern of dumb decisions by Dusty. This year was just another one.

We discussed it in the past. Now that he has 0 wins and his ERA has gone up by a big number I think it's easier to assume it was dumb to send him back out. He had some quality starts last year after the relief appearance, it doesn't mean he should have pitched in relief last year. It's all a patern of dumb decisions by Dusty. This year was just another one.

 

Harang has had 10 starts since coming back after the rain delay. One of those starts he went two innings because of rain....so in reality 9 starts.

 

6 of those 9 starts have been quality starts. He can't control that he gets little run support. His ERA has jumped because of 3 bad starts. What's more telling....6 quality starts or 3 bad starts?