June 3, 200917 yr That is ridiculous. Kobe loves the end of games, everyone knows that. LeBron usually plays well at the end, and I've never seen him run away scared. I guess the facts just don't matter. What I was saying is that when is on in the 4th he is able to do things that no one else can do. Like score or assist on 31 consecutive points, who has ever heard of that? Jordan had Pippen. His rosters were not that bad. 91-93 he had along with SP, Paxon a nice shooter, two decent to good post players in Horace Grant and Cartwright, and BJ Armstrong who was a player that Jordan made alot better. 96-98 title teams had SP, Rodman who could defend anyone, Longley who wasn't great but he was consistent, Harper who was the perfect PG for Jordan and Pippen, and Kukoc who was the best 6th man in the league. Either way, with Pippen, Jordan was not asked to do as much as LeBron. LeBron is needed to be the leader of the defense, score the points, get the assist, get somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 or 9 boards. He has to do everything for the Cavs to be that good. Can't compare the two at this age. Before the title runs, Kobe Bryant was just another good player. LeBron without a title is considered by many to be the best player in the game and a player that could possibly grow into the best player in league history. No one thought that about Kobe at 24. No one outside of Kobe fans think that Kobe could become the greatest of all-time even now. Not taking anything away from the Mamba because he seems like he is the hardest worker in the NBA, but to compare the two at 24 just isn't realistic to me. You have never heard me say that the players on the Cavs are good. They had me fooled into thinking that they were fit well enough to LeBron's game that he could manage them to a title. I was wrong. I have always though Big Z was garbage as a player...always. Even early in his career when he made the all-star team. Varajao is nothing more than an energy player that should come off the bench, I like him as a player but I love hustlers. Williams had me fooled until around the all-star break. He would be a nice 3rd option, if he was used like that. Wally is horrible. I repeat horrible, and I have never thought different. I love Joe Smith, but what can he really offer besides 5 or 6 good minutes. To me as sad as it is to say it Delonte West is the 2nd best player on the Cavs. That is sad. On one of the NBA threads that got closed I talked about how horrible the players around LeBron were. That's what I just said. :confused:
June 3, 200917 yr I disagree...Lebron takes over and has shown he can do so. BUT it's the same way as with Kobe when he was still early in the league. It's a growing process to be the "answer" time after time. During his first few years in the league the Cavs were horrible which led to him not having that many opportunities to win games. Now that they are contenders he has more of those opportunities and it just takes time. To say that he is a scared pup is just ridiculous. When does he take over games? He got lucky and hit a miracle 3 in game 2 last series. Most of the time he drives past somebody and dishes it out to one of his teammates. You'll never see Kobe doing that. Players want to have the ball in their hands when the game is on the line.
June 3, 200917 yr That sounds awesome. But how bad would that suck if it was like a certificate for jelly of the month club or something like that...What a let down! :lol: If I know uncle Randy the way I think I do, there will be no certificate for jelly of the month club. Afterall, it is his condo we are staying in at New Smyrna if you catch my drift.
June 3, 200917 yr If I know uncle Randy the way I think I do, there will be no certificate for jelly of the month club. Afterall, it is his condo we are staying in at New Smyrna if you catch my drift. True true! Good luck.
June 3, 200917 yr When does he take over games? He got lucky and hit a miracle 3 in game 2 last series. Most of the time he drives past somebody and dishes it out to one of his teammates. You'll never see Kobe doing that. Players want to have the ball in their hands when the game is on the line. Three Eastern Conference Moments. Game 6- vs. the Pistons- Last 25 points of the game for the Cavs. Game1- Vs. the Magic- 49 points, what 18 in the 4th? Cavs lost on nearly a last second shot from Lewis. Game 5 vs. the Magic- Scored or assisted on the last 32 points of the game. How about the Celtics series last year when the games were so close. He helped take the Celtics to 7 games. Remember those Celtics have 3 HOF players and won the title, LeBron didn't even have another legit star. LeBron was huge in the 4th quarter of the last series. The Magic were just the better team. To say he's not big in the 4th is garbage. What more can one person do? Even the great Kobe struggled without teammates. Remember a 3-1 lead over the Suns a few years ago? Teammates determine your playoff success, you can't win without players. When does he take over games? Just about every night, best record in the league with one of the worst rosters in the league. What more do you want?
June 3, 200917 yr Jordan had Pippen. His rosters were not that bad. 91-93 he had along with SP, Paxon a nice shooter, two decent to good post players in Horace Grant and Cartwright, and BJ Armstrong who was a player that Jordan made alot better. 96-98 title teams had SP, Rodman who could defend anyone, Longley who wasn't great but he was consistent, Harper who was the perfect PG for Jordan and Pippen, and Kukoc who was the best 6th man in the league. Either way, with Pippen, Jordan was not asked to do as much as LeBron. LeBron is needed to be the leader of the defense, score the points, get the assist, get somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 or 9 boards. He has to do everything for the Cavs to be that good. He was asked to carry the team prior to the rest of the roster coming into their own. Grant and Rodman were excellent post defenders, but they weren't threats to score in the post. How many championship teams can you name without a go-to threat in the post on the offensive end? Celtics ('08) = KG Spurs ('99, '03, '05, '07) = Tim Duncan Heat ('06) = Shaq Pistons ('04) = 'Sheed Lakers ('00-02) = Shaq Rockets ('94-95) = Hakeem Lakers ('80, '82, '85, '87-88) = Kareem Celtics ('81, '84, '86) = McHale, Parish 76ers ('83) = Moses Malone Sonics ('79) = Jack Sikma Bullets ('78) = Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld Blazers ('77) = Bill Walton Celtics ('74, '76) = Dave Cowens Knicks ('70, '73) = Willis Reed Lakers ('72) = Wilt Bucks ('71) = Kareem/Alcindor Celtics ('57, '59-66, '68-69) = Bill Russell 76ers ('67) = Wilt By my calculations, that's 52 years worth of NBA champions. I'm not sure who the 1958 St. Louis Hawks had, so I'll count them as a team without a low-post stud. The 1975 Warriors...the Bad Boys of Detroit and Jordan's Bulls. There have been 10 teams in 52 years to win a title without a go-to big man. Six of those are the Chicago teams lead by Jordan. That means 19.2% of NBA champions since 1957 did it without a go-to big. That % drops to 7.5% if you take Jordan out of the equation. Just sayin'....people overlook many facets of MJ's greatness. There's one of them. His ability to not only win a title, but to dominate and win six titles without a low post threat. That's unheard of in NBA history. Cleveland fell victim to a bad matchup and a supporting cast that came up lame in the conference finals (see Mo Williams). Mo will get better with more experience, I think. But, the front line guys aren't going to get more athletic. They need to address that.
June 3, 200917 yr He was asked to carry the team prior to the rest of the roster coming into their own. Grant and Rodman were excellent post defenders, but they weren't threats to score in the post. How many championship teams can you name without a go-to threat in the post on the offensive end? Celtics ('08) = KG Spurs ('99, '03, '05, '07) = Tim Duncan Heat ('06) = Shaq Pistons ('04) = 'Sheed Lakers ('00-02) = Shaq Rockets ('94-95) = Hakeem Lakers ('80, '82, '85, '87-88) = Kareem Celtics ('81, '84, '86) = McHale, Parish 76ers ('83) = Moses Malone Sonics ('79) = Jack Sikma Bullets ('78) = Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld Blazers ('77) = Bill Walton Celtics ('74, '76) = Dave Cowens Knicks ('70, '73) = Willis Reed Lakers ('72) = Wilt Bucks ('71) = Kareem/Alcindor Celtics ('57, '59-66, '68-69) = Bill Russell 76ers ('67) = Wilt By my calculations, that's 52 years worth of NBA champions. I'm not sure who the 1958 St. Louis Hawks had, so I'll count them as a team without a low-post stud. The 1975 Warriors...the Bad Boys of Detroit and Jordan's Bulls. There have been 10 teams in 52 years to win a title without a go-to big man. Six of those are the Chicago teams lead by Jordan. That means 19.2% of NBA champions since 1957 did it without a go-to big. That % drops to 7.5% if you take Jordan out of the equation. Just sayin'....people overlook many facets of MJ's greatness. There's one of them. His ability to not only win a title, but to dominate and win six titles without a low post threat. That's unheard of in NBA history. Cleveland fell victim to a bad matchup and a supporting cast that came up lame in the conference finals (see Mo Williams). Mo will get better with more experience, I think. But, the front line guys aren't going to get more athletic. They need to address that. No doubt. Still though Jordan had help and didn't have to do as much as LeBron. Early in his career, yeah maybe. But title years no. Great accomplishment without a low post scoring big, it is unheard of, but I will still take his supporting cast over LeBron's.
June 3, 200917 yr No doubt. Still though Jordan had help and didn't have to do as much as LeBron. Early in his career, yeah maybe. But title years no. Great accomplishment without a low post scoring big, it is unheard of, but I will still take his supporting cast over LeBron's. Nobody win's championships by themselves. Lebron won't either. His supporting cast isn't as bad as it played vs. Orlando. It reminds me of when the Bulls were trying to overtake Detroit. Pippen (and the rest) of the Jordan's running mates hadn't yet risen to the level need to win championships and Jordan was forced to carry the load and try to beat them by himself. Seems like I remember Pippen getting migraines and not playing well in a crucial Game 7 the year before Chicago finally broke through.
June 3, 200917 yr Nobody win's championships by themselves. Lebron won't either. His supporting cast isn't as bad as it played vs. Orlando. It reminds me of when the Bulls were trying to overtake Detroit. Pippen (and the rest) of the Jordan's running mates hadn't yet risen to the level need to win championships and Jordan was forced to carry the load and try to beat them by himself. Seems like I remember Pippen getting migraines and not playing well in a crucial Game 7 the year before Chicago finally broke through. Unless they add some pieces he's going to be gone. West and Williams are not a championship backcourt unless the front court is just loaded. The big guys are old besides Varajao and he's most likely gone.
June 3, 200917 yr I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out, but this NBA Finals will feature both JJ Reddick and Adam Morrison (if Morrison is on the Lakers active roster). A buddy of mine pointed this out and I just think that it is interesting that one of these guys will get a ring before a bunch of guys with higher NBA profiles considering how they have fallen off the map since their great college careers.
June 3, 200917 yr I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out, but this NBA Finals will feature both JJ Reddick and Adam Morrison (if Morrison is on the Lakers active roster). A buddy of mine pointed this out and I just think that it is interesting that one of these guys will get a ring before a bunch of guys with higher NBA profiles considering how they have fallen off the map since their great college careers. Morrison is not on the playoff roster, but you can see him at Laker games at the end of the bench in street clothes. they were talking about this on PTI yesterday and they were asking who would have the better career. They both agreed JJ would, he's just on the wrong team. If the Magic win, as a Duke fan, I will be happy to see JJ get a ring, but I'll be shocked if they beat the Lakers. Shocked.
June 4, 200917 yr I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out, but this NBA Finals will feature both JJ Reddick and Adam Morrison (if Morrison is on the Lakers active roster). A buddy of mine pointed this out and I just think that it is interesting that one of these guys will get a ring before a bunch of guys with higher NBA profiles considering how they have fallen off the map since their great college careers. The Lakers also acquired Trevor Ariza for almost nothing from Orlando.
June 4, 200917 yr Morrison will be out of the league soon enough. Reddick will be on a different team and get more playing time. He showed some promise during the 1st round I do believe.
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