I never said where you play didn't effect your performance BUT what I'm saying is you have to go off of performance. You can not simply say If "x" player tried harder, or played with more heart then he'd do better. I mean if that's the case then you can say that for any player if you're trying to compare them to someone else.

 

True. But, I will take Baron Davis over Mo Williams and not hesitate. That argument is the closest though. No one else really even compares.

He thinks if Lebron had as good supporting cast then no one could play close. Just another exaggerated LJ fan.:lol:

 

Actually Kobe is the greatest player on the planet. Funny you should say that. Anyways, I'll take Kobe, Lamar, Pau, Trevor, Brown, Farmar, Fisher, Bynm and Vujacic over LBJ, WEst, Williams, Varjao, and Big Z. Orlando got behind the Cleveland team by 20 points every game except for the last game and came back. I'd be very surprised if they come back on the Lakers after getting down 20 points. Especially with the best closer on the planet playing in the Purple and Gold.

 

Exaggerated LeBron fan.....good stuff.:lol: LeBron is my 2nd favorite player, but he still doesn't hold a candle to Kobe when it comes to my loyalties.

Lakers should win and probably will but due to the fact that any NBA game/series not involving the Celtics I am not paying much attention to then my vote went to who I want to win due to my Celtic affection for the Lakers and Kobe. I voted the Majic. :clap:

I will be watching NCAA baseball, MLB baseball and catchig the NBA score/ highlights on sportcenter.

But the truth. You put LBJ on any legit roster and he wins the title. If you add him to just about any team that is very good in the NBA and they are the favorite to win the title. Not really much to exaggerate on there.

 

He better have somebody on his teams that know how to take over and win close games.

I would like to see Phil go with the following starting lineup:

 

Fisher, Bryant, Ariza, Odom, Gasol

 

The finals would come down to who has the better games between Kobe and Howard. Lakers in 7.

He better have somebody on his teams that know how to take over and win close games.

 

LeBron is a closer. As a matter of fact for the Cavs he's the starter, the middle relief, the set-up man, and the closer. No player is asked to do more than him...excuse me...NO player has ever been asked to do more than him and sometimes playing 1 on 5 just isn't enough. Best closer? Maybe not yet. But no coach in the league would be mad if he had the ball at the end of the game. Maybe he would close better with some teammates around him, you know, so that the entire defense wouldn't be guarding him. All other players in this category have that. He never has.

Take Kobe, Pierce or who ever you want. I'll take James, because when he is on at the end of the game he is on a different level than anyone else. Game 5 vs. the Magic, no one else can do that. Pistons game 3 years ago, no one else can do that. No one. Not Kobe, not anyone. Even game 1 vs. the Magic last series. He did his part, Lewis just hit a great shot.

LeBron is a closer. As a matter of fact for the Cavs he's the starter, the middle relief, the set-up man, and the closer. No player is asked to do more than him...excuse me...NO player has ever been asked to do more than him and sometimes playing 1 on 5 just isn't enough. Best closer? Maybe not yet. But no coach in the league would be mad if he had the ball at the end of the game. Maybe he would close better with some teammates around him, you know, so that the entire defense wouldn't be guarding him. All other players in this category have that. He never has.

Take Kobe, Pierce or who ever you want. I'll take James, because when he is on at the end of the game he is on a different level than anyone else. Game 5 vs. the Magic, no one else can do that. Pistons game 3 years ago, no one else can do that. No one. Not Kobe, not anyone. Even game 1 vs. the Magic last series. He did his part, Lewis just hit a great shot.

 

 

Do you watch the NBA? Kobe is like a rapid wolf jumping into a chicken house in late games when everything's on the line. Bottom line is, he takes over games better than anyone in the league period. Lebron is like a scared little pup that runs underneath the porch to hide.

Talent doesn't mean they are better players. They won 19 games. I bet you my house the Cavs without Lebron could have won 19 games.

 

Maybe. But, they wouldn't be much better. Without the Lebron the Cavs aren't a very good team.

 

Per 100 possessions, Cleveland is +21.0 when Lebron is on the court.

 

To compare, here's a few stats from the '07-08 season...

 

Lakers (w/Kobe) = +7.1

Orlando (w/Howard) = +8.2

Boston (w/Garnett) = +12.2

 

Better than the Clippers? Probably. But, that's not saying much. They'd be a joke without Lebron.

LeBron is a closer. As a matter of fact for the Cavs he's the starter, the middle relief, the set-up man, and the closer. No player is asked to do more than him...excuse me...NO player has ever been asked to do more than him and sometimes playing 1 on 5 just isn't enough. Best closer? Maybe not yet. But no coach in the league would be mad if he had the ball at the end of the game. Maybe he would close better with some teammates around him, you know, so that the entire defense wouldn't be guarding him. All other players in this category have that. He never has.

Take Kobe, Pierce or who ever you want. I'll take James, because when he is on at the end of the game he is on a different level than anyone else. Game 5 vs. the Magic, no one else can do that. Pistons game 3 years ago, no one else can do that. No one. Not Kobe, not anyone. Even game 1 vs. the Magic last series. He did his part, Lewis just hit a great shot.

 

Michael Jordan? He was asked to carry Chicago early in his career.

 

And, he won six titles without a single player who could score consistently in the low post. In fact, he never played with a post player who even forced teams to think twice about them on the offensive end.

 

I'm not sure people grasp the significance of that. Team's rarely...very rarely win one title without a post presence. Jordan won six.

Do you watch the NBA? Kobe is like a rapid wolf jumping into a chicken house in late games when everything's on the line. Bottom line is, he takes over games better than anyone in the league period. Lebron is like a scared little pup that runs underneath the porch to hide.

 

I disagree...Lebron takes over and has shown he can do so. BUT it's the same way as with Kobe when he was still early in the league. It's a growing process to be the "answer" time after time. During his first few years in the league the Cavs were horrible which led to him not having that many opportunities to win games. Now that they are contenders he has more of those opportunities and it just takes time. To say that he is a scared pup is just ridiculous.

3xcats... I get the argument about LeBron not having a very good support cast. My question is, why all of the sudden are they not good enough to win the title? They were the best team in the NBA in the regular season... nobody mentioned them being bad until the playoffs. Just because they lose in the playoffs, now we need to get rid of them all?

I just found out there is a really good chance I will be at Game 4 of this Series!!! We are going to be in New Smyrna Beach on vacation and my wife's uncle lives in Orlando and wants to give us an anniversary present while we're down there!

I'm really hoping it works out!

I just found out there is a really good chance I will be at Game 4 of this Series!!! We are going to be in New Smyrna Beach on vacation and my wife's uncle lives in Orlando and wants to give us an anniversary present while we're down there!

I'm really hoping it works out!

 

That sounds awesome. But how bad would that suck if it was like a certificate for jelly of the month club or something like that...What a let down! :lol:

Do you watch the NBA? Kobe is like a rapid wolf jumping into a chicken house in late games when everything's on the line. Bottom line is, he takes over games better than anyone in the league period. Lebron is like a scared little pup that runs underneath the porch to hide.

 

That is ridiculous. Kobe loves the end of games, everyone knows that. LeBron usually plays well at the end, and I've never seen him run away scared. I guess the facts just don't matter.

 

What I was saying is that when is on in the 4th he is able to do things that no one else can do. Like score or assist on 31 consecutive points, who has ever heard of that?

 

Michael Jordan? He was asked to carry Chicago early in his career.

 

And, he won six titles without a single player who could score consistently in the low post. In fact, he never played with a post player who even forced teams to think twice about them on the offensive end.

 

I'm not sure people grasp the significance of that. Team's rarely...very rarely win one title without a post presence. Jordan won six.

 

Jordan had Pippen. His rosters were not that bad. 91-93 he had along with SP, Paxon a nice shooter, two decent to good post players in Horace Grant and Cartwright, and BJ Armstrong who was a player that Jordan made alot better.

96-98 title teams had SP, Rodman who could defend anyone, Longley who wasn't great but he was consistent, Harper who was the perfect PG for Jordan and Pippen, and Kukoc who was the best 6th man in the league.

 

Either way, with Pippen, Jordan was not asked to do as much as LeBron. LeBron is needed to be the leader of the defense, score the points, get the assist, get somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 or 9 boards. He has to do everything for the Cavs to be that good.

 

I disagree...Lebron takes over and has shown he can do so. BUT it's the same way as with Kobe when he was still early in the league. It's a growing process to be the "answer" time after time. During his first few years in the league the Cavs were horrible which led to him not having that many opportunities to win games. Now that they are contenders he has more of those opportunities and it just takes time. To say that he is a scared pup is just ridiculous.

 

Can't compare the two at this age. Before the title runs, Kobe Bryant was just another good player. LeBron without a title is considered by many to be the best player in the game and a player that could possibly grow into the best player in league history. No one thought that about Kobe at 24. No one outside of Kobe fans think that Kobe could become the greatest of all-time even now. Not taking anything away from the Mamba because he seems like he is the hardest worker in the NBA, but to compare the two at 24 just isn't realistic to me.

 

3xcats... I get the argument about LeBron not having a very good support cast. My question is, why all of the sudden are they not good enough to win the title? They were the best team in the NBA in the regular season... nobody mentioned them being bad until the playoffs. Just because they lose in the playoffs, now we need to get rid of them all?

 

You have never heard me say that the players on the Cavs are good. They had me fooled into thinking that they were fit well enough to LeBron's game that he could manage them to a title. I was wrong. I have always though Big Z was garbage as a player...always. Even early in his career when he made the all-star team. Varajao is nothing more than an energy player that should come off the bench, I like him as a player but I love hustlers. Williams had me fooled until around the all-star break. He would be a nice 3rd option, if he was used like that. Wally is horrible. I repeat horrible, and I have never thought different. I love Joe Smith, but what can he really offer besides 5 or 6 good minutes.

To me as sad as it is to say it Delonte West is the 2nd best player on the Cavs. That is sad.

 

On one of the NBA threads that got closed I talked about how horrible the players around LeBron were.

I just found out there is a really good chance I will be at Game 4 of this Series!!! We are going to be in New Smyrna Beach on vacation and my wife's uncle lives in Orlando and wants to give us an anniversary present while we're down there!

I'm really hoping it works out!

 

That is great! We were going to go to the finals but..................

 

 

 

The pesky Magic just had to beat LeBron...I mean the Cavs.