March 27, 200917 yr Yes I'm quite serious it's my opinion and obviously we disagree. I guess anyone who doesn't agree lock step with you is trying to stir the pot. I would like to clarify that my description of him was accuarate and also only included his personal life and academic achievements and nothing about his political philosophy. Columbia Harvard Law President of Harvard Law Review Constitutional Law professor at University of Chicago Law School Illinois state senator US senator from Illinois President of the United States I would have really enjoyed hearing someone with these qualifications speak at my commencement no matter what side of the political aisle they reside. Are you Jerry Falwell, James Doubson or Pat Roberts? Would you be just as excited to hear someone speak with this background-- Yale Harvard MBA Air Force Fighter Pilot Team Owner Texas Rangers Congressman from Texas Governor of Texas President of the United States Based on your comment, I would conclude yes, but I have my doubts.
March 27, 200917 yr Obama is only extremist from an extremist point of view. IMHO, anybody who supports partial birth abortion is an extremist and it doesn't make you an extremist to hold that opinion.
March 27, 200917 yr Would you be just as excited to hear someone speak with this background-- Yale Harvard MBA Air Force Fighter Pilot Team Owner Texas Rangers Congressman from Texas Governor of Texas President of the United States Based on your comment, I would conclude yes, but I have my doubts. If any President of the United States addressed the commencement at the college I attended, I would consider it an honor, whether or not I voted for him and whether or not I even liked him.
March 27, 200917 yr Neither analogy is appropriate here ... No matter how strongly you feel about his position on any issue, Barack Obama has done nothing to have his presence at any event compared to that of Adolf Hitler and David Duke. Clyde handed 3TL the lemons(Hitler) and she made the lemonade. I don't think it was a bad analogy at all. I understand why Notre Dame would want President Obama to be the commencement speaker; as he is the President of the United States, and that is prestigious. But, during the 2004 presidential election, I sat in the congregation of a church where the priest told us not to vote for John Kerry(who is Catholic) because he was in favor of letting the states decide the abortion issue. So, I can see where it is considered by many to be inappropriate to have President Obama or Bush speak at Notre Dame, considering their abysmal pro-life issues.:irked:
March 27, 200917 yr So, I can see where it is considered by many to be inappropriate to have President Obama or Bush speak at Notre Dame, considering their abysmal pro-life issues.:irked: Mention "pro life" and 99.9% of the people think abortion. They do not think death penalty. I'd be curious to see which schools President Bush spoke at that didn't put up a fuss about his pro-DP stance.
March 27, 200917 yr Obama will be the ninth U.S. president to receive an honorary degree from Notre Dame and the sixth sitting president to address graduates. Other commencement speakers have included Dwight Eisenhower, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hY9EJOvoVv2Mwr_gn_bKdoVG5MGQD974NII82 I don't remember the outcry from Catholics or its leaders when pro-death penalty Presidents such as some listed above spoke at ND.
March 27, 200917 yr Obama will be the ninth U.S. president to receive an honorary degree from Notre Dame and the sixth sitting president to address graduates. Other commencement speakers have included Dwight Eisenhower, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hY9EJOvoVv2Mwr_gn_bKdoVG5MGQD974NII82 I don't remember the outcry from Catholics or its leaders when pro-death penalty Presidents such as some listed above spoke at ND. Given the stances of previous presidents on other issues that would go against those of the Church, the allowing of Obama to speak is not unforgivable. The church's teachings on the death penalty and abortion are quite clear, the church is pacifistic by and large but there are scriptural and other justifications for a "just" war, although they are rare. I also believe that it has been the tradition for Notre Dame to invite the president to speak at their commencements anyway. Not all have accepted the invitation however.
March 27, 200917 yr Question: if you are pro death penalty or pro abortion, how can you belong to an organization that is totally and diametrically opposed to those positions? Seems very odd to me.
March 27, 200917 yr Obama will be the ninth U.S. president to receive an honorary degree from Notre Dame and the sixth sitting president to address graduates. Other commencement speakers have included Dwight Eisenhower, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hY9EJOvoVv2Mwr_gn_bKdoVG5MGQD974NII82 I don't remember the outcry from Catholics or its leaders when pro-death penalty Presidents such as some listed above spoke at ND. Death penalty has never been the major hot button issue for Catholics that abortion is.
March 27, 200917 yr Would you be just as excited to hear someone speak with this background-- Yale Harvard MBA Air Force Fighter Pilot Team Owner Texas Rangers Congressman from Texas Governor of Texas President of the United States Based on your comment, I would conclude yes, but I have my doubts. Yes I would be, because I don't agree with all of someones policy positions doesn't mean they don't deserve respect or have achievements.
March 27, 200917 yr Death penalty has never been the major hot button issue for Catholics that abortion is. The rank and file don't talk about it as much, but the church's stance on it is identical either way.
March 27, 200917 yr Death penalty has never been the major hot button issue for Catholics that abortion is. It's worth noting the magnitude of the issue and those who have decision making power over that issue. The death penalty is mostly an activity of the states and not the federal government and therefore is a political issue mostly for Governors more so than the POTUS. There were 37 executions by the states in the year 2008 and there were only 37 federal executions between 1927 and 2003. While every life is significant those numbers pale in comparison to the number abortions each and every year. Also, the abortion issue was "federalized" in Roe v Wade. The POTUS therefore can have a significant impact on the life issue by supporting or opposing the federal funding of abortions, suporting or opposing federal funding of stem cell research, and appointing Supreme Court Justices whose judical philosophy is consistent or inconsistent with a "right" to an abortion. The bottom line is that there are many more abortions than executions and the POTUS has a greater influence on the abortion issue so it's more signficant to allow a pro-abortion president to speak than to allow a pro-death penalty president to speak.
March 27, 200917 yr Death penalty has never been the major hot button issue for Catholics that abortion is. It's worth noting the magnitude of the issue and those who have decision making power over that issue. The death penalty is mostly an activity of the states and not the federal government and therefore is a political issue mostly for Governors more so than the POTUS. There were 37 executions by the states in the year 2008 and there were only 37 federal executions between 1927 and 2003. While every life is significant those numbers pale in comparison to the number abortions each and every year. Also, the abortion issue was "federalized" in Roe v Wade. The POTUS therefore can have a significant impact on the life issue by supporting or opposing the federal funding of abortions, suporting or opposing federal funding of stem cell research, and appointing Supreme Court Justices whose judical philosophy is consistent or inconsistent with a "right" to an abortion. The bottom line is that there are many more abortions than executions and the POTUS has a greater influence on the abortion issue so it's more signficant to allow a pro-abortion president to speak than to allow a pro-death penalty president to speak.
March 27, 200917 yr The rank and file don't talk about it as much, but the church's stance on it is identical either way. Agreed, but even there the death penalty doesn't get the play that abortion does.
March 27, 200917 yr Agreed, but even there the death penalty doesn't get the play that abortion does. One reason could be due to the number of abortions that occur each year compared to the number of those who are executed via the death penalty each year. I can't speak for everyone but at my local parrish the death penalty is discussed often, prayer services have been held during the night as the sentence is carried out etc. My parrish priest spends every Sunday afternoon at the local jail. (Not that any of those people are on death row)
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