:thumb:

 

We'll turn in to UCLA post-Wooden...or Alabama football.

 

The only move that makes sense is to leave Gillispie alone for at least 2 more seasons.

 

I can't say I didn't see this coming though. It is UK basketball. And, he didn't inherit a strong roster.

 

For those who like to bring up Roy Williams at UNC, can we at least mention what he had to work with coming in? Namely a trio of talented sophomores that pretty much covered the bases...a very good PG (Felton); a talented, scoring machine on the wing that was a threat from long range and a great slasher (McCants), and a dominating presence insided (May). With that trio, he proceeed to go 19-11 overall, 8-8 in the conference with a second round tournament loss.

 

Fortunately, all three chose to remain at UNC and fortunately, all the key role players from the previous year were still there as well. Williams added one huge piece, freshman Marvin Williams. He won a title.

 

Situation #1 - Coach A inherits All-Americans and three key positions (PG, wing, inside). Gets to coach the same roster, plus one talented freshman that he recruited in his second year and wins a title.

 

Situation #2 - Coach B inherits one solid senior PG, one underachieving senior 2 guard, a solid sophomore PG, an explosive sophomore 2 guard and one incoming freshman big man. The senior PG remains solid. He turns the senior 2 guard into an NBA draft pick, when he'd have been lucky to play overseas prior to that. The sophomore PG is hurt for half the year and the sophomore 2 guard is hurt basically all season. Then, the stud freshman goes down just before the tournament.

 

In year two, he basically has a whole new roster. Sophomore big man and junior 2-guard are his only dependable players. The rest of the talent are freshman.

 

If we're gonna say the SEC then vs. now is apples to oranges, then let's be fair across the board.[/QUOTE]

 

Well since we have had a few compare Tubby's final 2 years against BCG's first 2 years, we HAVE to look at the conference strength which is way down.

 

I think the Cats will show major improvement next year as long as both PP and JM come back.

Is that the same Dan Issel that compiled a 180-208 record during his head coaching career? Just wondering.

 

Ask the folks in Denver what they think of his knowledge.

 

Look, I don't get too hyper over BCG's won/loss record, that's just a piece of the pie. If my only complaint was the number of wins I would be all too happy to grant him all the time needed. I supported Joe B. during a couple of lean years, Pitino during his bad years (yes, he had some), Tubby through his and even Eddie until the scandals. I think the UK coach should set the benchmark among coaches not only in wins but in class, recruiting, and in his handling of players, media, fans, and academic standards. When we start caring only about wins we set ourselves up for a return to the years preceding and including probation.

 

I think some of you are so mired in your hatred of Tubby that it clouds your vision. Don't worry, Tubby is not coming back just as Rick is not coming back.

:laugh::thumb:

 

In all fairness, Pitino did a pretty good job his first go round with the Knicks, but he also inherited Patrick Ewing.

 

In all fairness, Issel wasn't all that bad early on in his first go-round with Denver either.

 

I'm not saying Gillispie has gone above and beyond so far, but it takes time. It will be a huge mistake if he were sent packing now.

 

Luckily, and based solely on what he did with Rich Brooks, I expect Barnhardt to stick with him until he's had a fair chance.

There is no comparison to what Brooks stepped into and what Gillispie stepped into. None. UK football had NEVER been consistently competitive (since Bryant without cheating), ... lowered scholarships, NO recruiting under Morris, sanctions, restrictions, in the best football conference in the country, etc. BCG took over a good team (not great) at UK with some decent talent (not great), no sanctions, with a 100+ year history of winning in a time when the conference is not very strong. Like I said, no comparison.

 

I do agree that we need to give BCG more time, but I think if the SEC was what it was 2-3 seasons ago, many would be calling for his head as they would not even be on the bubble right now. I think this actually works in his favor as he will get another year or so to right the ship.

 

As far as Mike Casey, he is entitled to his opinion like everyone else, and probably has a little more weight to it than any of us. I think he is probably tainted a little bit as he and many of the ex-players have not fully come on board with BCG as they did with Pitino and Tubby.

 

BEST CASE (and what I am sure all UK fans should be pulling for): UK wins the next 2 games and has a good SEC tourney run to get into the dance. Pulls an upset or two in the dance, and the mood on this forum will be MUCH improved. :thumb:

 

The only comparison I was trying to make was that you have to give a new coach time.

First off, I wasn't blaming him for anything. I simply said this is the worst stretch of KY basektball, maybe ever. You may have been impressed with the past two seasons under Orlando, but I was not. I see no difference in Orlando's last two seasons and Billy G's first two, except Billy G has a better excuse.

 

Yeah, he played his "talented" players at Ole Miss and you saw what happened. Patterson's finger or ankle has been injured ever since the conference started. Meeks has three players around him every time he touches the ball because nobody else on the team can shoot. He's almost completely starting over this season from last season. He deserves a much better "free pass" than Tubby did his last two seasons, would you not agree?

 

Tubby's last two seasons were pretty bad for UK standards. The funny thing is that even during Tubby's worst two years here, he still got the in the tournament and past the 1st round.

 

Billy G has already gave us 2 really embarrassing losses at home in 2 years. We didn't make it past the 1st round in forever last year. Now this year we might not make the tournament. I know a lot of people didn't like Tubby, however it was never this bad under him, and you probably dont want to admit it but things probably would have started getting better last year if Tubby had stayed. People wanted UK to get back on track, but people didn't realize that the quickest way to do that would have been if Tubby stayed. The program got set back even further when Tubby left.

 

I know I was pretty harsh on Billy G just now. But I dont like it when people are giving him a free pass, when they really shouldn't right now. I still have faith in him, and really look forward to next season. However there is no reason that this team should be close to misssing the tournament, and that falls all on Billy G this year.

Ask the folks in Denver what they think of his knowledge.

 

Look, I don't get too hyper over BCG's won/loss record, that's just a piece of the pie. If my only complaint was the number of wins I would be all too happy to grant him all the time needed. I supported Joe B. during a couple of lean years, Pitino during his bad years (yes, he had some), Tubby through his and even Eddie until the scandals. I think the UK coach should set the benchmark among coaches not only in wins but in class, recruiting, and in his handling of players, media, fans, and academic standards. When we start caring only about wins we set ourselves up for a return to the years preceding and including probation.

 

I think some of you are so mired in your hatred of Tubby that it clouds your vision. Don't worry, Tubby is not coming back just as Rick is not coming back.

 

You're quoting the wrong guy for that comment...

 

I'm only concerned with Kentucky and its current coach, which happens to be Billy Gillispie. I wish Tubby and Rick well. But, they're not at UK any more, thus they're not relevant to this discussion. If you can show me where I brought either of them up, I'll gladly eat my words (with some paprika).

In all fairness, Issel wasn't all that bad early on in his first go-round with Denver either.

 

I'm not saying Gillispie has gone above and beyond so far, but it takes time. It will be a huge mistake if he were sent packing now.

 

Luckily, and based solely on what he did with Rich Brooks, I expect Barnhardt to stick with him until he's had a fair chance.

 

I agree that sending him packing now would be a mistake. I may not understand or agree with BCG, but he is the coach and I really do expect to see them turn the corner next season. If the other issues that have haunted BCG aren't a factor any longer, he will be back next year and I hope that is accurate.

 

Barnhardt has been pretty good at sticking with his picks and think he will do the same here.

Do we really expect that Galloway, Liggins, Harrellson, and Miller could have just come in and started from day 1? I have no doubt they're more talented than Harris and Porter, but two of them are true freshmen, and the other two are transfers. Expecting them to perform as well (and as consistently) as juniors and seniors is silly.

 

Miller's progression has been obvious, and he's getting more involved as a result. There are very few guys who can come in and be like Patterson in their freshman year.

 

Um a lot of schools start freshman from day 1 and have success with it. I mean lets just look at one of the ky boys from last year who is now at Butler. He has been starting since day 1 and been doing pretty darn good. Don't say well look at the competition, our non conference schedule this year was really weak. These freshman could have been playing a lot more early in the year. Plus even though they were just freshman, they still probably would have helped the team out more than Porter, or Harris has. So yeah I do not believe it is silly at all as you said, to believe that this team would be in a better position if he played those guys more.

 

As I said in a previous post, I still believe in Billy G. However to act like this years team is not his fault, is just silly. This team is a team that has no business missing the tournament. Especially with the SEC being as weak as it is this year, there no reason for this and that does fall on Billy G.

You're quoting the wrong guy for that comment...

QUOTE]

 

I only quoted you because of your comment about Issel. The rest was a rant on my part.

I only quoted you because of your comment about Issel. The rest was a rant on my part.

 

I thought so, maybe...

 

I try to make it a point to refrain from bringing up Tubby Smith or getting too involved in threads on that subject. It's all been said at this point.

 

As for Pitino, I was never a huge fan of him personally, thus I wasn't that upset when he left. I thought he left us in good enough shape to roll on without him. In hindsight, I see the folly in my thinking. Regardless, while I may long for the days of 3 straight title appearances, I don't long for Rick Pitino.

:thumb:

 

We'll turn in to UCLA post-Wooden...or Alabama football.

 

 

I don't know if post-Wooden is a right comparison.

 

UCLA did well (just not championship well) until the early 80's.

 

The Bruins were in the NCAA Final Four in '76 and '80 and were in the Top Ten in '77, '78 and '79.

 

Apples to Oranges for UK now versus UCLA right after Wooden. (BTW, the Bruins had 3 coaches in that span: Gene Bartow ('76-'77), Gary Cunningham ('78 - '79) and then Larry Brown ('80 to ?)

I don't know if post-Wooden is a right comparison.

 

UCLA did well (just not championship well) until the early 80's.

 

The Bruins were in the NCAA Final Four in '76 and '80 and were in the Top Ten in '77, '78 and '79.

 

Apples to Oranges for UK now versus UCLA right after Wooden. (BTW, the Bruins had 3 coaches in that span: Gene Bartow ('76-'77), Gary Cunningham ('78 - '79) and then Larry Brown ('80 to ?)

 

Again, not trying to say the situations are identical. No two are for what that's worth. However, if they axed Gillispie after two seasons, they could be heading down the same road as UCLA with 3 coaches in 5 seasons and that typically doesn't work well.

 

Should we make it a new rule on BGP to put a disclaimer on every comparison we make?

Higher winner percentage than Pitino in the NBA.

 

And? Pitino said he was on the right track and said it would take 4 to 5 years to rebuild this program, if you can believe the God of KY basketball.

Tubby's last two seasons were pretty bad for UK standards. The funny thing is that even during Tubby's worst two years here, he still got the in the tournament and past the 1st round.

 

Billy G has already gave us 2 really embarrassing losses at home in 2 years. We didn't make it past the 1st round in forever last year. Now this year we might not make the tournament. I know a lot of people didn't like Tubby, however it was never this bad under him, and you probably dont want to admit it but things probably would have started getting better last year if Tubby had stayed. People wanted UK to get back on track, but people didn't realize that the quickest way to do that would have been if Tubby stayed. The program got set back even further when Tubby left.

 

I know I was pretty harsh on Billy G just now. But I dont like it when people are giving him a free pass, when they really shouldn't right now. I still have faith in him, and really look forward to next season. However there is no reason that this team should be close to misssing the tournament, and that falls all on Billy G this year.

 

Any facts at all to back that up? Look at post 88 and that sums up exactly the way I feel. People are overreacting big time, but that's typical UK fans. People tend to forget he's dealing with a completely different team this year than last. It's much like starting over again.

Um a lot of schools start freshman from day 1 and have success with it. I mean lets just look at one of the ky boys from last year who is now at Butler. He has been starting since day 1 and been doing pretty darn good. Don't say well look at the competition, our non conference schedule this year was really weak. These freshman could have been playing a lot more early in the year. Plus even though they were just freshman, they still probably would have helped the team out more than Porter, or Harris has. So yeah I do not believe it is silly at all as you said, to believe that this team would be in a better position if he played those guys more.

 

As I said in a previous post, I still believe in Billy G. However to act like this years team is not his fault, is just silly. This team is a team that has no business missing the tournament. Especially with the SEC being as weak as it is this year, there no reason for this and that does fall on Billy G.

 

Funny, how no matter what happened during Tubby's last two years, it was never his fault. "It's not his job to get the kids motivated," "He can't come out and play for the kids." My my my, what a vicious circle.