Isn't Barak as much white as he is not?

Lyndon Johnson's famous quote regarding affirmative action is apropos here. ‘’You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, ‘You are free to compete with all the others,’ and still justly believe that you have been completely fair.” I think this is an excellent explanation of the situation, however, I feel that affirmative action merely rigs the results. Why not focus on making the liberated more competitive on the blocks?

 

The words "leveling the playing field" are not popular words on BGP.

I am not saying that minorities can not get the job done, I am saying that they would not have the amount of opportunities they have without AA.

 

I asked my friend Joe tonight who got promoted about a year ago in his company if he think AA had anything to do with his promotion. His responce was he earned his promotion, but he feels that he would not have had the opportunity to show case his work if not for AA. He was the only Black male among the candidates the rest were white males with the exception of one female( not sure her race). He had other opinions on the selection process, but I am not going to get into them at this point.

 

Now to show that I am not going to with hold all the facts. He also said that he has been told from people he works with that a few of the guys that were passed over for him thinks he got the job cause of AA.

 

So you have no problem that you friend may have gotten a job because of discrimination and that someone who may have been more qualified was passed over?

 

That attitude (that minorities CAN'T compete on a level playing field) is IMVHO what holds many of them back. It is also exactly the attitude that causes many of the hard feelings between the races.

 

What incentive is there for them to get the best education and to build the best resume when they know that in many instances they don't have to?

Lyndon Johnson's famous quote regarding affirmative action is apropos here. ‘’You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, ‘You are free to compete with all the others,’ and still justly believe that you have been completely fair.” I think this is an excellent explanation of the situation, however, I feel that affirmative action merely rigs the results. Why not focus on making the liberated more competitive on the blocks?

 

Lyndon Johnson was President 40 years ago.

I'm absolutely certain that if the Socialist Obama loses Kentucky we will all be painted as racists, just like when he lost the primary.

Very correct. And it's all in how the media wants to spin their story.

 

CNN reported the day of the primary that exit polls that day showed 26% of Kentuckians said that 'race was a factor in their decision'. Later that evening the same network reported that exit polls in Oregon showed that 74% of Oregonians said that 'race was not a factor in how they voted'.

It's all in how you word something to slant a point, I suppose.

So you have no problem that you friend may have gotten a job because of discrimination and that someone who may have been more qualified was passed over?

 

That attitude (that minorities CAN'T compete on a level playing field) is IMVHO what holds many of them back. It is also exactly the attitude that causes many of the hard feelings between the races.

 

What incentive is there for them to get the best education and to build the best resume when they know that in many instances they don't have to?

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

 

Exactly!

I am not saying that minorities can not get the job done, I am saying that they would not have the amount of opportunities they have without AA.

 

I asked my friend Joe tonight who got promoted about a year ago in his company if he think AA had anything to do with his promotion. His responce was he earned his promotion, but he feels that he would not have had the opportunity to show case his work if not for AA. He was the only Black male among the candidates the rest were white males with the exception of one female( not sure her race). He had other opinions on the selection process, but I am not going to get into them at this point.

 

Now to show that I am not going to with hold all the facts. He also said that he has been told from people he works with that a few of the guys that were passed over for him thinks he got the job cause of AA.

Look at college for instance. Many minorities fall into the middle class, and many whites live in poverty. Unfortunately, the way things are set up now, a poverty-stricken white student who uses discipline and hard work to become the best he can be can be passed over by a richer minority student who doesn't put in much effort at all. Do you view that as a level playing field?

Isn't Barak as much white as he is not?

That continuously gets ignored. Why?

So you have no problem that you friend may have gotten a job because of discrimination and that someone who may have been more qualified was passed over?

 

That attitude (that minorities CAN'T compete on a level playing field) is IMVHO what holds many of them back. It is also exactly the attitude that causes many of the hard feelings between the races.

 

What incentive is there for them to get the best education and to build the best resume when they know that in many instances they don't have to?

 

I think he was the most qualified, I don't think he would have had the opportunity to show case his skills without AA. To my understanding of the situation 8 candidates were chosen, 6 whits males, with one female and one black male. His opinion that their were women and minorities that were not choosen that were more qualified than a couple of the white males.

That continuously gets ignored. Why?

 

I think most mixed race people will say that they had a hard time fitting in with any race growing up. I know Rod woodson and Hines Ward both have said that about their past.

I think there might be slight difference here, though I do mostly agree with LNs original post.

 

If you say that you are voting for some one because you feel that their race is superior, that is racism. If you vote for someone because they represent a race or group of people that have never been in that position to lead, you aren't racist, but you may be overlooking some important points.

 

It may only be a slight difference, but it is still a difference, I think.

 

I agree with you. African Americans might say they are voting for Obama simply because he is black, but may identify with him for a variety of reasons, and still not know his political agenda.

 

They might feel that he has experienced racism in his time (likely true).

 

They may respect him because, despite obstacles he managed to rise above and be where he is today.

 

The bottom line is it may not be the color of his skin, as much as his culture that African Americans identify with. Because of this, they may feel he will represent them better than a white candidate. I dont think this is racism.

You're going to have to provide proof for that one.

 

Have any realtor friends? Ask 'em. It's been long enough that some of them might actually admit the truth.

I think he was the most qualified, I don't think he would have had the opportunity to show case his skills without AA. To my understanding of the situation 8 candidates were chosen, 6 whits males, with one female and one black male. His opinion that their were women and minorities that were not choosen that were more qualified than a couple of the white males.

 

What did he base his opinion on?

 

If he was truly the most qualified then how did AA help him showcase his talents? Are you engaging in supposition that had AA not existed he wouldn't have been chosen in the first place? That's kind of meaningless much like your supposition that without AA minorities would all be victims of blatant discrimination.

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe he got to showcase his talents because he was the best and that it had nothing to do with the color of his skin. If the company was as blatantly discriminatory as you seem to be indicating in their choice of candidates then I really doubt your friend would have gotten the job. The would have taken of of the allegedly lesser qualified candidates as a finalist and hired a white guy based on better qualifications.

 

I'm sorry (no wait no I'm not) but I just don't see racism and/or discrimination everytime a white person gets a job rather then a minority applicant. And as long as there are people like you that do there will never be equality in racial hiring.

Have any realtor friends? Ask 'em. It's been long enough that some of them might actually admit the truth.

 

Not gonna play that. You made the assertion, surely you have proof.

What did he base his opinion on?

 

If he was truly the most qualified then how did AA help him showcase his talents? Are you engaging in supposition that had AA not existed he wouldn't have been chosen in the first place? That's kind of meaningless much like your supposition that without AA minorities would all be victims of blatant discrimination.

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe he got to showcase his talents because he was the best and that it had nothing to do with the color of his skin. If the company was as blatantly discriminatory as you seem to be indicating in their choice of candidates then I really doubt your friend would have gotten the job. The would have taken of of the allegedly lesser qualified candidates as a finalist and hired a white guy based on better qualifications.

 

I'm sorry (no wait no I'm not) but I just don't see racism and/or discrimination everytime a white person gets a job rather then a minority applicant. And as long as there are people like you that do there will never be equality in racial hiring.

 

 

Just throwing this out there....

 

What if Affirmative Action were ceased? What if the "White Man" then suddenly started getting all the entrances into the top colleges, top jobs, top pay? What if minorities, including women and blacks suddenly started finding themselves unable to even be considered for positions? Would you state that they just weren't working as hard? Or that they aren't as qualified?

 

To me, I can see both sides of the issue. But, I don't think we're far enough along as a country to end Affirmative Action at this time.