May 5, 200818 yr Who are all these good players that will help them win when/if Dunn and Griffey are gone? Well, I look at the D'backs for instance, and I think that the Reds would be similar if they could add someone in return for a trade for those 2. Like Sparky said "when your big guys don't hit, you don't win." When you rely on those 2 to drive in your runs and they don't, well, you don't win. Our order is reliant on those 2 producing runs. So that begs the ?, who will drive in the runs in their absence? I don't know. But you can't tell me that if we get quality starts, that we can't manufacture more offense with them gone. And if you do tell me,,,I won't believe it.:argue:
May 5, 200818 yr Dunn has been pretty consistent the past 3 or 4 years with his numbers. So has Dave Kingman!
May 5, 200818 yr Well, I look at the D'backs for instance, and I think that the Reds would be similar if they could add someone in return for a trade for those 2. Like Sparky said "when your big guys don't hit, you don't win." When you rely on those 2 to drive in your runs and they don't, well, you don't win. Our order is reliant on those 2 producing runs. So that begs the ?, who will drive in the runs in their absence? I don't know. But you can't tell me that if we get quality starts, that we can't manufacture more offense with them gone. And if you do tell me,,,I won't believe it.:argue:For one thing, the Reds aren't going to get quality players for Dunn and Griffey at this point. And the Reds and Diamondbacks aren't comparable ...
May 5, 200818 yr Well, I look at the D'backs for instance, and I think that the Reds would be similar if they could add someone in return for a trade for those 2. Like Sparky said "when your big guys don't hit, you don't win." When you rely on those 2 to drive in your runs and they don't, well, you don't win. Our order is reliant on those 2 producing runs. So that begs the ?, who will drive in the runs in their absence? I don't know. But you can't tell me that if we get quality starts, that we can't manufacture more offense with them gone. And if you do tell me,,,I won't believe it.:argue: Last year, JR and Dunn combined for 70 HRs and 199 RBI. So they did produce and yet the Reds didn't win. Really the production of these two is pretty irrelevant to how the team does. That's why they should go.
May 5, 200818 yr For one thing, the Reds aren't going to get quality players for Dunn and Griffey at this point. And the Reds and Diamondbacks aren't comparable ... I agree that the Reds aren't going to get quality players for Dunn and Griffey which is why I said addition by subtraction. And why aren't they comparable to the D'backs?
May 5, 200818 yr I agree that the Reds aren't going to get quality players for Dunn and Griffey which is why I said addition by subtraction. And why aren't they comparable to the D'backs? Who's going to replace Dunn and Griffey in the lineup to give the Reds "addition by subtraction" as you call it? Bruce, perhaps, but who else? Dunn and Griffey's clubhouse leadership isn't the Reds' problem ... a lack of talent is the problem. The Diamondbacks have quality young players at nearly every position and a fine pitching staff ... the organizations aren't comparable at all right now.
May 5, 200818 yr Who's going to replace Dunn and Griffey in the lineup to give the Reds "addition by subtraction" as you call it? Bruce, perhaps, but who else? Dunn and Griffey's clubhouse leadership isn't the Reds' problem ... a lack of talent is the problem. The Diamondbacks have quality young players at nearly every position and a fine pitching staff ... the organizations aren't comparable at all right now. With what you are getting currently, you could flip a coin and get more than what you're getting out of Dunn and Griffey. So that is addition by subtraction. Unload the dead $. Next, I say that given a real shot here, Bruce is as promising as anyone we've had in some time. I think E5 and Votto can produce runs along with BP. Add Kepp and Hopper and you have 2 guys who'll scare .300 and have a better than average OBP. Gonzo comes back and you have a solid middle infield. I don't care if you move E5 to the outfield or not, Kepp needs to play everyday. If you open up 2 outfield positions, put Hopper and Bruce in those slots. You can paint it doom and gloom talent-wise, I don't agree. If you rid yourself of Arroyo one way or another, give Homer a shot. Easy to say all of this when you have to look up to smell the Pirates, but IMO it's not as doomed as you make it out. A couple of subtractions and a couple of additions (without even breaking the bank) and I think we look distinctly like Arizona.
May 5, 200818 yr Who's going to replace Dunn and Griffey in the lineup to give the Reds "addition by subtraction" as you call it? Bruce, perhaps, but who else? Dunn and Griffey's clubhouse leadership isn't the Reds' problem ... a lack of talent is the problem. The Diamondbacks have quality young players at nearly every position and a fine pitching staff ... the organizations aren't comparable at all right now. Hard to believe the Reds have been around 100 years longer
May 6, 200818 yr Jr. and Dunn have the two worst averages out of the starters, if your missing them for their power, well Edwin and Votto have more homers than them with far higher averages.
May 6, 200818 yr A couple of subtractions and a couple of additions (without even breaking the bank) and I think we look distinctly like Arizona.You have quite an imagination ...
May 6, 200818 yr Realistic, actually. What's next? You'll be shouting "Trade Harang" from the rooftops? :sssh:
May 6, 200818 yr What's next? You'll be shouting "Trade Harang" from the rooftops? :sssh: I haven't ... you're misrepresenting my position.
May 6, 200818 yr I haven't ... you're misrepresenting my position. West I'm just giving you grief at this point, I understand we won't agree on this one.
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