Placed limits on the number of football games the middle school teams can play and not gotten more involved in the youth football leagues to make sure that they organized and operated in a manner that better prepares them to play football in high school are the two most common criticisms that I hear and I hear if from football types at the Lex public high schools. Unfortunately at this point, I wonder if the Lex public schools can right the ship even if they tried. Soccer has become either the premiere or second most popular sport with basketball in Lex I'm told. Add to that the fact Lex Cath and LCA have become the "schools of choice" for football players in Lex. Perhaps the Lex public schools can become the dominating football programs that they should be with their numbers and talent. I wish they would. But its going to take a real committment from all aspects of the school system. Perhaps if UK can continue to succeed in football, it will spill over into the Lex public schools and community.

 

All I know is that simple logic causes me to believe that private schools can only really succeed when the public schools have created a void for the private schools to step into. Other than those people only sending their kids to a private school for religious reasons, not many sane people will spend multiple thousands of dollars each year to send their children to private schools when there is a free public school with free transportation available in the community that is providing the same quality of athletic and academic programs that are offered at the private schools.

I agree with what you point out as problems with the publics and they should and can do much better developing kids in the middle school programs.

 

But there are success stories in Lexington. Look at Bryan Station. Certainly the Coach Ligon has done a fantastic job with his high school team, but how raw were the kids in Ligon's program when they arrived as freshmen @ BS. They fact of the matter is these kids showed up at station with skills as freshmen. I believe there are folks on the north side of Lexington that care about basketball and the tradition of excellence at BS. As a result they have quality youth leauges and very good AAU coaches like Nimbo Hammons. I have no connection to Station whatsoever, this is my opinion based on observation. Hammons is one of the better coaches around Lexington. He knows the game, and is very good at teaching fundamentals. The kids on the north side have alot of respect for him.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but basketball is alive and well in the public schools in Lexington because of AAU programs and folks like Hammons.

 

Yes the publics can and should do more, but there is always more than one way to be successful.

Placed limits on the number of football games the middle school teams can play and not gotten more involved in the youth football leagues to make sure that they organized and operated in a manner that better prepares them to play football in high school are the two most common criticisms that I hear and I hear if from football types at the Lex public high schools. Unfortunately at this point, I wonder if the Lex public schools can right the ship even if they tried. Soccer has become either the premiere or second most popular sport with basketball in Lex I'm told. Add to that the fact Lex Cath and LCA have become the "schools of choice" for football players in Lex. Perhaps the Lex public schools can become the dominating football programs that they should be with their numbers and talent. I wish they would. But its going to take a real committment from all aspects of the school system. Perhaps if UK can continue to succeed in football, it will spill over into the Lex public schools and community.

 

All I know is that simple logic causes me to believe that private schools can only really succeed when the public schools have created a void for the private schools to step into. Other than those people only sending their kids to a private school for religious reasons, not many sane people will spend multiple thousands of dollars each year to send their children to private schools when there is a free public school with free transportation available in the community that is providing the same quality of athletic and academic programs that are offered at the private schools.

 

 

If I may I will attempt to highlight the issues and circumstances that LN notes above in regard to Lexington/Fayette County/Bluegrass area football. Some of this I have posted previously but will cover again here. I apologize for the redundency.

 

From a pure numbers perspective the Fayette public HSs should do better in football than their record indicates. These are large high schools, some of the largest in the state. All of these school have 'the numbers' to compete, especially Henry Clay and Dunbar. As noted above, there is competition for skilled football players that has nothing to do with private schools. Soccer is big in Lexington/Bluegrass area. So it has its impact. So are the traditional sports of baseball and basketball. These sports definitely seem to pull some skilled players away from football. This applies to the privates as well. Thus football is often the 4th choice for high skilled student atheletes in the area. Also, Lexington has 4 ice hockey teams in the High School league. These teams have up to 20 players on them. Almost none of the players of hockey play football due to the overlap in seasons in October and November. Yet many of these players would make excellent football players since the valued skill sets (size, speed, agility) are so similar. Also, some of the best players in this sport play AA and AAA on OUT OF STATE teams that start up their practices in September. 3 of the Lexington teams are from public schools. As a reference Louisville also fields 4 ice hockey teams but 2 of those are from St. X and Trinity. So from a numbers perspective Lexington loses a lot more players from football to ice hockey than does Louisville.

 

As for LC or LCA being 'the school of choice' due to the ineffectiveness of the Fayette MS football program - I do not see it being a magnet that is pulling away talent from the other schools as some might think or would like to think. As someone who has been involved for 4 years with the LC MS program the main reason it is more successful now is that there is a larger coaching staff and a full coaching staff for both 7th and 8th grade programs. This has only happened in the last 3 years. The result is that the MS program is a much better experience than before when there was an understaff coaching staff and it seems players do stick with the sport into the HS level much more than 4 years ago. Hence why LC rosters 100+ players at the HS level now. I know of some students who quit LC football due to the understaff situation a few years ago. I do not see families coming to the MS or HS simply to 'play football'. Of 60 players last season in the MS program (I had kids on both squads) I know of 1 family where the 'quality of the program' may have been their main reason for going to a Catholic MS. Otherwise these are families that were already planning on going to Catholic MS and in most cases are committed to going on to the HS.

 

I think that the reason for the lack of success in Fayette and for that matter in (most) Louisville public schools is the same. The feeder programs are not tied to the HSs AND it difficult for coaches and ADs to impact these feeder programs. The MSs are not tied to the HSs. There is no continuity, there is no structured path. The MS and HS levels in both counties are mostly seperate. The HS programs are starting from scratch with each freshman class. Though Lexington does not have open enrollement, like Jefferson country the MS districts are not necessarily aligned with the HS districts. Or some cases student are assigned to MS schools that are NOT the closest MS school (Rosa Parks/James Lane Allen districting and the Palomar subdivision is an example that only was recently changed.).

 

 

What I do not believe, and have not seen while being involved with LC football for 4 years, is that LC or LCA's success has come through the blantent or subtle 'stealing' of students from the Fayette County schools. Apparently, some coaches in Fayette keep feeding that line to Stu Silberman. But it is not true at all. I believe that INTERNAL RECRUITING of excellent student atheletes that already walk the halls of these schools and go the public MSs is the key to any success on the football field.

 

As for schools paying tuition, etc. It is a serious commitment to have your children go to a private school. The real cost goes well beyond tuition. Self transportation is easly $150 a month just to and from school. Layer in transportation to daily practices and games that are 3 counties over during a weekday and typical transportation cost are over $300 a month - easliy. These are real numbers. Add to that the time one or both parents must commit for logistics and transportation. It should be clear that attending a private school is not an easy commitment at all - regardless of tution cost (the original issue in this thread)

 

Sorry for the long winded post.

If I may I will attempt to highlight the issues and circumstances that LN notes above in regard to Lexington/Fayette County/Bluegrass area football. Some of this I have posted previously but will cover again here. I apologize for the redundency.

 

From a pure numbers perspective the Fayette public HSs should do better in football than their record indicates. These are large high schools, some of the largest in the state. All of these school have 'the numbers' to compete, especially Henry Clay and Dunbar. As noted above, there is competition for skilled football players that has nothing to do with private schools. Soccer is big in Lexington/Bluegrass area. So it has its impact. So are the traditional sports of baseball and basketball. These sports definitely seem to pull some skilled players away from football. This applies to the privates as well. Thus football is often the 4th choice for high skilled student atheletes in the area. Also, Lexington has 4 ice hockey teams in the High School league. These teams have up to 20 players on them. Almost none of the players of hockey play football due to the overlap in seasons in October and November. Yet many of these players would make excellent football players since the valued skill sets (size, speed, agility) are so similar. Also, some of the best players in this sport play AA and AAA on OUT OF STATE teams that start up their practices in September. 3 of the Lexington teams are from public schools. As a reference Louisville also fields 4 ice hockey teams but 2 of those are from St. X and Trinity. So from a numbers perspective Lexington loses a lot more players from football to ice hockey than does Louisville.

 

As for LC or LCA being 'the school of choice' due to the ineffectiveness of the Fayette MS football program - I do not see it being a magnet that is pulling away talent from the other schools as some might think or would like to think. As someone who has been involved for 4 years with the LC MS program the main reason it is more successful now is that there is a larger coaching staff and a full coaching staff for both 7th and 8th grade programs. This has only happened in the last 3 years. The result is that the MS program is a much better experience than before when there was an understaff coaching staff and it seems players do stick with the sport into the HS level much more than 4 years ago. Hence why LC rosters 100+ players at the HS level now. I know of some students who quit LC football due to the understaff situation a few years ago. I do not see families coming to the MS or HS simply to 'play football'. Of 60 players last season in the MS program (I had kids on both squads) I know of 1 family where the 'quality of the program' may have been their main reason for going to a Catholic MS. Otherwise these are families that were already planning on going to Catholic MS and in most cases are committed to going on to the HS.

 

I think that the reason for the lack of success in Fayette and for that matter in (most) Louisville public schools is the same. The feeder programs are not tied to the HSs AND it difficult for coaches and ADs to impact these feeder programs. The MSs are not tied to the HSs. There is no continuity, there is no structured path. The MS and HS levels in both counties are mostly seperate. The HS programs are starting from scratch with each freshman class. Though Lexington does not have open enrollement, like Jefferson country the MS districts are not necessarily aligned with the HS districts. Or some cases student are assigned to MS schools that are NOT the closest MS school (Rosa Parks/James Lane Allen districting and the Palomar subdivision is an example that only was recently changed.).

 

 

What I do not believe, and have not seen while being involved with LC football for 4 years, is that LC or LCA's success has come through the blantent or subtle 'stealing' of students from the Fayette County schools. Apparently, some coaches in Fayette keep feeding that line to Stu Silberman. But it is not true at all. I believe that INTERNAL RECRUITING of excellent student atheletes that already walk the halls of these schools and go the public MSs is the key to any success on the football field.

 

As for schools paying tuition, etc. It is a serious commitment to have your children go to a private school. The real cost goes well beyond tuition. Self transportation is easly $150 a month just to and from school. Layer in transportation to daily practices and games that are 3 counties over during a weekday and typical transportation cost are over $300 a month - easliy. These are real numbers. Add to that the time one or both parents must commit for logistics and transportation. It should be clear that attending a private school is not an easy commitment at all - regardless of tution cost (the original issue in this thread)

 

Sorry for the long winded post.

 

 

Leatherneck is this you in disguise??? :laugh::laugh:

 

Ok now I will actually go back and read this post!

Leatherneck is this you in disguise??? :laugh::laugh:

 

Ok now I will actually go back and read this post!

 

No that wasn't me in disguise, but I like this guy!:thumb: And I do appreciate the points he made which for the most part support what I have been told. He disagrees with me on really own one point; that's the "school of choice" issue. And not being from Lex, its hard for me to say he's wrong. All I know is that in talking to a couple of lawyers and business types who live in Lex with younger children (and admittedly, they may not be the norm), they have almost to a person told me they are seriously considering sending their children to LC or LCA in part to the heavy emphasis those two schools place on athletics (particularly football). They are weighing all the issues: academics, athletics, discipline, curriculum etc. They are not the types to put athletics at the top to the exclusion of the other issues, but on the other hand, they realize how important being involved in successful athletic programs can be in molding children and thus they place a decent amount of weight on that issue.

I agree with what you point out as problems with the publics and they should and can do much better developing kids in the middle school programs.

 

But there are success stories in Lexington. Look at Bryan Station. Certainly the Coach Ligon has done a fantastic job with his high school team, but how raw were the kids in Ligon's program when they arrived as freshmen @ BS. They fact of the matter is these kids showed up at station with skills as freshmen. I believe there are folks on the north side of Lexington that care about basketball and the tradition of excellence at BS. As a result they have quality youth leauges and very good AAU coaches like Nimbo Hammons. I have no connection to Station whatsoever, this is my opinion based on observation. Hammons is one of the better coaches around Lexington. He knows the game, and is very good at teaching fundamentals. The kids on the north side have alot of respect for him.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but basketball is alive and well in the public schools in Lexington because of AAU programs and folks like Hammons.

 

Yes the publics can and should do more, but there is always more than one way to be successful.

 

I hope you are right about BS' football program heading in the right direction. Its a shame it was ever allowed to sink to the level that we have to talk about what the new coach has accomplished as being considered a success, if you get what I'm trying to say. And the point that you and Bluegrasscard are seemingly making (if I understand you correctly) about the middle schools not adequately preparing the kids before they start football at high school as frosh is a big, very big cause of the high school football problems. By then, a lot of them may have given up on football, or even if they do stick with it, they are so far behind and take so much remedial coaching (which either takes a lot of the coaches time away from the varsity; either requires a lot more coaches to be hired, which is probably not economically feasible; or either does not get done) that the programs remain behind the power curve. Contrast that with the programs that have middle and youth leagues supporting them that are tie to and orchestrated with the high school programs, and the answer to the issue becomes rather self evident.

No that wasn't me in disguise, but I like this guy!:thumb: And I do appreciate the points he made which for the most part support what I have been told. He disagrees with me on really own one point; that's the "school of choice" issue. And not being from Lex, its hard for me to say he's wrong. All I know is that in talking to a couple of lawyers and business types who live in Lex with younger children (and admittedly, they may not be the norm), they have almost to a person told me they are seriously considering sending their children to LC or LCA in part to the heavy emphasis those two schools place on athletics (particularly football). They are weighing all the issues: academics, athletics, discipline, curriculum etc. They are not the types to put athletics at the top to the exclusion of the other issues, but on the other hand, they realize how important being involved in successful athletic programs can be in molding children and thus they place a decent amount of weight on that issue.

 

LN, I don't want to imply that the what you describe above does not happen at all. Just that it is not at all common or widespread from what I can see. If a particular student or family is very serious about football and their choices are LC or Dunbar I could easily see where they would look at the MS program strength and the HS program success as a measuring point. For lawyers and well paid business people the logistics and cost of self-transportation may not be a serious factor but these issues alone give pause to a lot of families.

 

I know of a number of students who took the LC placement exam and did not go to LC for various reasons. Even though their families were ready to make the logistical commitment. In most cases it was that the student wanted to stay with their circle of friends who were going on to Dunbar, HC or Lafayette. In some cases it was because the public had a program (band in this case) that was not available at LC or considered a better program at the public school (Dunbar).

 

I think by and large there are so many factors that come into play when parents and students are faced with this decision of school choice that anyone who comes to a school purely for athletics is not hardly seen.

I agree with what you point out as problems with the publics and they should and can do much better developing kids in the middle school programs.

 

But there are success stories in Lexington. Look at Bryan Station. Certainly the Coach Ligon has done a fantastic job with his high school team, but how raw were the kids in Ligon's program when they arrived as freshmen @ BS. They fact of the matter is these kids showed up at station with skills as freshmen. I believe there are folks on the north side of Lexington that care about basketball and the tradition of excellence at BS. As a result they have quality youth leauges and very good AAU coaches like Nimbo Hammons. I have no connection to Station whatsoever, this is my opinion based on observation. Hammons is one of the better coaches around Lexington. He knows the game, and is very good at teaching fundamentals. The kids on the north side have alot of respect for him.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but basketball is alive and well in the public schools in Lexington because of AAU programs and folks like Hammons.

 

Yes the publics can and should do more, but there is always more than one way to be successful.

 

What you have posted above makes me, an alum of Bryan Station, full of pride. However, the gap that was in place from when I was there (mid 90's) to now, was full of nothingness. When there is no support, why wouldn't people choose a better alternative.

What you have posted above makes me, an alum of Bryan Station, full of pride. However, the gap that was in place from when I was there (mid 90's) to now, was full of nothingness. When there is no support, why wouldn't people choose a better alternative.

 

With that same mindset, teachers should leave the profession.

LN, I don't want to imply that the what you describe above does not happen at all. Just that it is not at all common or widespread from what I can see. If a particular student or family is very serious about football and their choices are LC or Dunbar I could easily see where they would look at the MS program strength and the HS program success as a measuring point. For lawyers and well paid business people the logistics and cost of self-transportation may not be a serious factor but these issues alone give pause to a lot of families.

 

I know of a number of students who took the LC placement exam and did not go to LC for various reasons. Even though their families were ready to make the logistical commitment. In most cases it was that the student wanted to stay with their circle of friends who were going on to Dunbar, HC or Lafayette. In some cases it was because the public had a program (band in this case) that was not available at LC or considered a better program at the public school (Dunbar).

 

I think by and large there are so many factors that come into play when parents and students are faced with this decision of school choice that anyone who comes to a school purely for athletics is not hardly seen.

 

Well stated.:thumb:

Just so you know that those kids are going to be coming from public schools.

 

 

FYI LBBC, I believe you are repeating an erroneous stereotype. More kids actually go from catholic parochial to public HS than the other way around, although the public side thinks we raid their coffers. :lol: This is for Louisville only of course. In the 2006-07 year, the stats showed about 49% of the 14,000 parochial kids went to public HS. Many go on to stellar athletic and academic careers. Male and Manual would practically cease to exist athletically without these kids. Our parish is a pipeline for those 2 schools.

FYI LBBC, I believe you are repeating an erroneous stereotype. More kids actually go from catholic parochial to public HS than the other way around, although the public side thinks we raid their coffers. :lol: This is for Louisville only of course. In the 2006-07 year, the stats showed about 49% of the 14,000 parochial kids went to public HS. Many go on to stellar athletic and academic careers. Male and Manual would practically cease to exist athletically without these kids. Our parish is a pipeline for those 2 schools.

 

So you don't think that a kid who averaged 20 ppg as a sophomore at a public school wouldn't be recruited by a private school that was openly allowed to recruit?

There are many more private elementary schools students who attend a public high school than vice versa.

I am not fully against Private schools, but I am against their practices. You read in the paper, and also some people are on "It is apart of Christianity to have people chose to attend a "private" school so that they shall get money to be able to afford to go to that school." I am all for letting kids go to a "private" or "Catholic" school. But what LCA did was flat out wrong. If you look at the numbers the two kids that were really brought up in that whole debacle would have only been eligible for close to $9,000 (the cost of their tuition combined), but yet recieved close to over $16,000. Tell me where they should get an extra $7,000 dollars to attend this school? All the "private" school advocaters want to cry saying that the KHSAA is trying to deny their right to a "private" education but at the same time these kids are not only getting paid to get an education for nothing, but yet getting paid to show up to school, that is illegal in high school and illegal in college, so really those kids need to be looked at for not being eligible for NCAA standards as well. I am a going memeber of a Catholic church and disagree with this even, if it was my church that donated all that money to those two kids I would be ticked. You mean to tell me a church is more worried about 2 star athletes getting an education to where they will give them 16 grand, over some family somewhere living in a shack starving, thats so rediculous.

 

I am sorry but if the families can't pay to get their children to and from these private schools then guess what they shouldn't be going. I mean I would like to own a mansion and drive a bentley but I can't afford it so I just have to do without, its somthing called life.

I am not fully against Private schools, but I am against their practices. You read in the paper, and also some people are on "It is apart of Christianity to have people chose to attend a "private" school so that they shall get money to be able to afford to go to that school." I am all for letting kids go to a "private" or "Catholic" school. But what LCA did was flat out wrong. If you look at the numbers the two kids that were really brought up in that whole debacle would have only been eligible for close to $9,000 (the cost of their tuition combined), but yet recieved close to over $16,000. Tell me where they should get an extra $7,000 dollars to attend this school? All the "private" school advocaters want to cry saying that the KHSAA is trying to deny their right to a "private" education but at the same time these kids are not only getting paid to get an education for nothing, but yet getting paid to show up to school, that is illegal in high school and illegal in college, so really those kids need to be looked at for not being eligible for NCAA standards as well. I am a going memeber of a Catholic church and disagree with this even, if it was my church that donated all that money to those two kids I would be ticked. You mean to tell me a church is more worried about 2 star athletes getting an education to where they will give them 16 grand, over some family somewhere living in a shack starving, thats so rediculous.

 

I am sorry but if the families can't pay to get their children to and from these private schools then guess what they shouldn't be going. I mean I would like to own a mansion and drive a bentley but I can't afford it so I just have to do without, its somthing called life.

 

I am a private school supporter. I do NOT agree with what LCA did. It is wrong and they should be punished. The same goes for ANY school that does this.

 

By the way we don't all drive Bentley's...some of us drive Land Rovers. Ain't that right Rockmom!! :rolleyes:

I am not fully against Private schools, but I am against their practices. You read in the paper, and also some people are on "It is apart of Christianity to have people chose to attend a "private" school so that they shall get money to be able to afford to go to that school." I am all for letting kids go to a "private" or "Catholic" school. But what LCA did was flat out wrong. If you look at the numbers the two kids that were really brought up in that whole debacle would have only been eligible for close to $9,000 (the cost of their tuition combined), but yet recieved close to over $16,000. Tell me where they should get an extra $7,000 dollars to attend this school? All the "private" school advocaters want to cry saying that the KHSAA is trying to deny their right to a "private" education but at the same time these kids are not only getting paid to get an education for nothing, but yet getting paid to show up to school, that is illegal in high school and illegal in college, so really those kids need to be looked at for not being eligible for NCAA standards as well. I am a going memeber of a Catholic church and disagree with this even, if it was my church that donated all that money to those two kids I would be ticked. You mean to tell me a church is more worried about 2 star athletes getting an education to where they will give them 16 grand, over some family somewhere living in a shack starving, thats so rediculous.

 

I am sorry but if the families can't pay to get their children to and from these private schools then guess what they shouldn't be going. I mean I would like to own a mansion and drive a bentley but I can't afford it so I just have to do without, its somthing called life.

 

I bet it would be very hard for you to find a private school partisan from outside of LCA that doesn't think what they did was not only wrong but stupid. We also knew that it would bring out the ALL private schools do it generalizations from the public school partisans.

 

Since the LCA decision there have been at least two public schools that have been sanctioned for illegal recruiting and yet we haven't heard any kind of outcry over that. In my book that's RIDICULOUS.

 

 

 

 

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