John Waddey originally printed in his My Point Of View column in First Century Christian (Link to Article) an article titled Death Of Our Nation. In the article he compares our nation to the Roman Empire just before the fall. He states many points in which we are akin to many of the ancient civilizations who have fallen.

 

Namely:

• The decay and collapse of the family.
  
  
• Drastic decline in their national birth rate.
  
  
• Obsession with violent and degrading sports and entertainment.
  
  
• Collapse of the moral standards of society.
  
  
• An enormous national debt with unreasonably heavy taxation.
  
  
• Dependence on foreigners to produce their food and goods, run their businesses and fill the ranks of their military.
  
  
• Years of unresolved internal strife and conflict.

Waddey states "the seven items listed above, which America is now burdened with, technology cannot resolve. Only by a national awakening and return to our spiritual and cultural roots can we hope to survive."

Fundamentalist propoganda or valid concerns?

 

Thoughts?

Another good one about the Fall of the Roman Empire are the early chapters of Thomas Cahill's "How the Irish Saved Civilization."

 

I read the article 2C. Good one. What say you everybody? Are we dying? Will we cease to be the America we know in 20 years? 50 years? Are we no longer that America NOW?

John Waddey originally printed in his My Point Of View column in First Century Christian (Link to Article) an article titled Death Of Our Nation. In the article he compares our nation to the Roman Empire just before the fall. He states many points in which we are akin to many of the ancient civilizations who have fallen.

 

Namely:

• The decay and collapse of the family.
  
  
• Drastic decline in their national birth rate.
  
  
• Obsession with violent and degrading sports and entertainment.
  
  
• Collapse of the moral standards of society.
  
  
• An enormous national debt with unreasonably heavy taxation.
  
  
• Dependence on foreigners to produce their food and goods, run their businesses and fill the ranks of their military.
  
  
• Years of unresolved internal strife and conflict.

Waddey states "the seven items listed above, which America is now burdened with, technology cannot resolve. Only by a national awakening and return to our spiritual and cultural roots can we hope to survive."

Well the "liberals" will not want to hear that a moral decline that the conservatives have been spouting about might be true. It will be written off as conservative propanganda or somehow attributed to the Karl Rove political movements.

 

I think the first is right on. Started happening with the free love in the 60's and then the divorce because things are a little rough mentality of the late 70's and 80's. Happily, I have heard that the divorce rate is actually decreasing as either people are not rushing into marriage or trying to work through problems.

 

Not sure I agree with either of the last two points while looking at this country.

 

Definitely, the sick and twisted world of sports entertainment is getting worse. Case in point, Vick and the Badz Kennels.

 

Do we have a decline in the national birth rate???

 

And yes, debt, not only national but personal, is a major, major issue to the financial stability of this country. The unreasonable taxation was lessened by the GW tax breaks but I think we will see those taxes increase on this public school teacher (I must be wealthy because the Dems keeping spouting that the tax breaks were only for the wealthy and I know I have more money in my pocket because of them. Never knew a household ran on two public school teachers salaries was wealthy.) come back in a Hillary Presidency with a Democrat-controlled Congress. Don't look forward to the 2008-2016 time period as the positives of the last 8 years in addressing the moral decline of this country and the unbalanced tax situation is either ignored or worsened.

 

That ought stir up a debate. Have fun, I am off to the golf course.

Well the "liberals" will not want to hear that a moral decline that the conservatives have been spouting about might be true. It will be written off as conservative propaganda or somehow attributed to the Karl Rove political movements.

 

I think the first is right on. Started happening with the free love in the 60's and then the divorce because things are a little rough mentality of the late 70's and 80's. Happily, I have heard that the divorce rate is actually decreasing as either people are not rushing into marriage or trying to work through problems.

 

Not sure I agree with either of the last two points while looking at this country.

 

Definitely, the sick and twisted world of sports entertainment is getting worse. Case in point, Vick and the Badz Kennels.

 

Do we have a decline in the national birth rate???

 

And yes, debt, not only national but personal, is a major, major issue to the financial stability of this country. The unreasonable taxation was lessened by the GW tax breaks but I think we will see those taxes increase on this public school teacher (I must be wealthy because the Dems keeping spouting that the tax breaks were only for the wealthy and I know I have more money in my pocket because of them. Never knew a household ran on two public school teachers salaries was wealthy.) come back in a Hillary Presidency with a Democrat-controlled Congress. Don't look forward to the 2008-2016 time period as the positives of the last 8 years in addressing the moral decline of this country and the unbalanced tax situation is either ignored or worsened.

 

That ought stir up a debate. Have fun, I am off to the golf course.

 

GW has gotten the deficit down, but at what expense. American jobs have been going overseas for years, but more have gone in the 7 years than ever before. The trade surplus is out of control and GW's foregin relations well lets say outside of England, we don't have many allies anymore.

 

America needs to wake up or one day we will find ourselves no longer a Superpower to the world. I have said this before, that if the US has another terrorist attack or natural disaster the economy would crumble.

And let's not forget the ravaging barbarians that have been trying to invade, pillage, and take our lands. And of course, communication is no better today than it was for the Roman Empire, so we're most definitely doomed. And really, when are the human gladiatorial events going to return, because the current death penalties just aren't any fun (this part I'm actually a bit more serious about than the other sarcastic remarks... uh-oh, lack of morals! Because killing just wasn't around in the glory days of the Roman Empire).

I’m not particularly familiar with the Roman Empire or what caused its collapse, so I won’t speak to that.

 

The decay and collapse of the family.

 

This is probably his best point and it goes hand in hand with the decline in the birth rate. It could be argued that the well-off, strong family types are having fewer kids, while a greater proportion of kids are being born out of irresponsibility and into broken, single parent homes. You can trace a lot of education, crime, and unemployment problems back to this.

 

As far as the rest of the bulleted points, I would register them valid concerns but reasoning that they are the harbingers of the collapse of our state is a bit of a stretch.

The first thing I want to say is that this is not a "conservative" versus "liberal" issue.

 

That being said:

 

While some may say his words are "alarmist", I say he's correct. The fall of the Roman Empire was (IMO) more correctly a descent into collapse. It took a significant amount of time to go from Empire to Ruins.

 

 

I'm reminded of a couple of quotes I've read:

 

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.---Robert M Hutchins

 

Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith. ---Alexis De Tocqueville

 

The best laws cannot make a constitution work in spite of morals; morals can turn the worst laws to advantage. That is a commonplace truth, but one to which my studies are always bringing me back. It is the central point in my conception. I see it at the end of all my reflections.---Alexis De Tocqueville

 

This City is what it is because our citizens are what they are.

---Plato

When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing more to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader. ---Plato

 

Discourse on virtue and they pass by in droves. Whistle and dance the shimmy, and you've got an audience.---Diogenes

 

To be fair when discussing the fall of the Roman Republic (i.e. representative democracy as we know it) and the fall of the Roman Empire it is important to note that they are two entirely different things that were separated by centuries.

 

The "death of democracy" in Roman times was during a time when Rome itself was still a great power in the world, but was falling apart politically within itself. The descent into civil war and the eventual ascension of Octavian, first of the Flavian Emperors, as Augustus Caesar.

 

The death of the Roman Empire(in the west that is) was largely due to some of the reasons mentioned above. Mostly the lethargic and apathetic nature of the Romans to take care of their own. More and more of the soldiers in the Legions were of Vandal, Gothic(Visigoth, Ostrogoth, etc), Celtic (Gallic), a few Germanic and in some cases Hunnish citizens of the Empire. History, where Rome is concerned, shows that the loyalty of the army was essential in maintaining control over the empire and in the end the non-Roman people who made up the army were loyal to their generals who were also non-Roman. Alaric the Visigoth most notably.

 

Of course this is all assuming that we aren't discussing the empire in the East which existed into the 1400's.

 

That help any?

The first thing I want to say is that this is not a "conservative" versus "liberal" issue.

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Oh, now, Rockmom, you know that everything is a "conservative vs. liberal" issue...you know, like good vs. evil.

 

Nice quotes, by the way. :thumb:

Oh, now, Rockmom, you know that everything is a "conservative vs. liberal" issue...you know, like good vs. evil.

If only it were that simple. Wouldn't all of our woes be washed away?

 

Nice quotes, by the way. :thumb:

 

Thanks! I love philosophers!

Oh, now, Rockmom, you know that everything is a "conservative vs. liberal" issue...you know, like good vs. evil.

Really? Because Hearsay told me everything was a "Catholic vs. Protestant" issue.

Oh, now, Rockmom, you know that everything is a "conservative vs. liberal" issue...you know, like good vs. evil.

 

Nice quotes, by the way. :thumb:

 

Agree, and agree:ylsuper:

Really? Because Hearsay told me everything was a "Catholic vs. Protestant" issue.

 

I bet the Orthodox Church would object to that...:sssh:

Really? Because Hearsay told me everything was a "Catholic vs. Protestant" issue.

 

Well, that's still just a variation of good vs. evil, right?