Here's a gem I found. I find it particularly relevant at this time:

 

Hermann Goering:

Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

 

 

(Quote verified at snopes.com)

 

 

 

The budget should be balanced. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of officialdom should be tempered, and assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest Rome become bankrupt.

Marcus Tullius Cicero

This is thread is facinating and everyone is doing an outstanding job confirming their opinions with facts and links. In fact, you folks are so impressive I'm considering pettitioning the mods for a separate P & R For Dummies Forum for me to post in.

 

Excuse me, but I have to go look up "elucidate".:creepy: :lol:

In response to Hearsay the Romans did not begin their pull out of Britain until the late 4th century you can find this in "The Life of the Roman emperors" and the way Suetonius defeated Boudica by tricking her into battle at a narrow gorge where his javelins an archers would nullify her greater numbers.

PepRock I applaud your knowledge of the 1st and 2nd century of European history but, my point involved more of the 3rd 4th and 5th when the Empire fell, what you quoated about the age of emperors is correct but it only lasted at best 250 years until very weak people took over the throne, when the goverment could force the citizenship to do their will everything was fine, but when the people stood up thats when the empire fell.When people IMO see wrong in goverment they try to correct it

Excuse me, but I have to go look up "elucidate".:creepy: :lol:

I think it means "a non-blond female who you escort on a social engagement."

I think it means "a non-blond female who you escort on a social engagement."

 

Then I was close. I thought it was the date I could never catch.

Fastbreak, interesting thoughts.

 

A few questions:

 

How can we be a country that protects the freedom to practice whatever religion one desires, without protecting the right to not practice religion?

No offense RM but this is a popular strawman... no one has (or is) suggesting that people be required to practice religion. This is what the First Amendment is all about. BUT, for our government and legal system to prohibit the free and open practice of religion by our citizens-any time anywhere- goes against everything the First Amendment guarantees.

 

Doesn't the current state of things in Iraq indicate that we do need Europe? I mean, we asked for their help in planning the action. We can't do what needs to be done in Iraq without their help.

 

Your post makes me wonder what more you mean to say. Should we eschew relationships with other countries? Wouldn't that be counter-productive in many ways?

You're overanalyzing here Mom... I simply contend that a weak Europe needs a strong America far more than a weakened America needs an even weaker Europe.

 

As to what the "Father" of our country thought:

 

As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government.

I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality

. -- George Washington

I'll see your Washington and raise you a Franklin, Adams, Lincoln and Henry...:lol: (I realize that Lincoln was not a founding father, but I still consider him relevant.)

 

“You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ... Congress will do everything it can to assist you in this wise intention."

George Washington to the chiefs of the Delaware Indian tribe.

 

“And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. What ever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

From George Washington's farewell address, in which he stated his heartfelt belief that religious principles and personal character are inseparable. This farewell addressed was required reading in most public schools throughout the 1800s and much of the 1900s.

 

“He who shall introduce into public affairs principles of primitive Christianity will change the face of the world."

Benjamin Franklin

 

“statesmen... may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone, which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand..."

John Adams

 

 

“We have grown in numbers, wealth, and power as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God."

Abraham Lincoln

 

“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not by religions, but by the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”

Patrick Henry

 

As to your comment about absolute right and wrong. Who decides?

God.

 

That's why I thought we have a Bible, Ten Commandments, Jesus Christ, etc.

 

I realize that's not terribly fashionable these days, but I do believe that what has been preserved as God's Word for millennia, is still God's Word today. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, to remove the Ten Commandments, the Golden rule, and other truths from our public structures.

 

If people could see this life from an eternal perspective, I am convinced that it would make more sense to issue free cigarettes to all schoolchildren from first grade through college, and to institute an enforced smoking policy rather than separating from them the hope that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I would suspect that everyone of the saints your faith holds dear would agree with this concept.

In response to Hearsay the Romans did not begin their pull out of Britain until the late 4th century you can find this in "The Life of the Roman emperors" and the way Suetonius defeated Boudica by tricking her into battle at a narrow gorge where his javelins an archers would nullify her greater numbers.

You're talking about two different Suetonius. Gaius Suetonius Paulinus, fought the Battle of Watling Street. Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus wrote the Lives of the Twelve Caesars, which was an excellent read. Its told in short bits and bites.

Then I was close. I thought it was the date I could never catch.

I like your definition better. :lol:

“You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ... Congress will do everything it can to assist you in this wise intention."

George Washington to the chiefs of the Delaware Indian tribe.

 

 

Where are the Delaware Indians today? Don't get me started on the plight of the Native American and their way of life, much less the freedom to practice their own religion.

I was only talking about Gaius Suetonius Paulinus in reference to the defeat of the Celts,as far as the book the name is The Roman Emperors by Michael Grant it is an excellent read

I was only talking about Gaius Suetonius Paulinus in reference to the defeat of the Celts,as far as the book the name is The Roman Emperors by Michael Grant it is an excellent read

:thumb: I knew of the other Suetonius and his book of a similar name as Grant's, thus the confusion.

Where are the Delaware Indians today? Don't get me started on the plight of the Native American and their way of life, much less the freedom to practice their own religion.

Okay...

 

For the record, a significant percentage of my family bloodline, and that of my wife is Native American.

 

I was simply quoting George Washington in regard to his open affirmation of Christianity in a way many often dismiss. :thumb:

Where are the Delaware Indians today? Don't get me started on the plight of the Native American and their way of life, much less the freedom to practice their own religion.

 

And I contend that while our founding fathers may have practiced Christianity, that is NOT what they guaranteed in the 1st Amendment.

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

 

IMO, whether or not it was intended to protect non-christians is not the point. The point is that it does.

Okay...

 

For the record, a significant percentage of my family bloodline, and that of my wife is Native American.

 

I was simply quoting George Washington in regard to his open affirmation of Christianity in a way many often dismiss. :thumb:

 

Yes...I, too, have Native American lineage...and I was pointing out that Washington may have supported and believed in religious freedom, but religious freedom was not granted to Native Americans during the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th. Their whole plight gives a black eye to the idea of American "freedom".