Famous last words spoke by the defenders of the 1935 Nuremburg Laws if I recall my German history

Famous last words spoke by the defenders of the 1935 Nuremburg Laws if I recall my German history

Horribly inaccurate comparison.

Why do you believe that defying summonses and subpoenas, and issuing executive espionage orders without court approval, is NEW behavior by the Executive branch?

Which, of course, may have saved your life.

 

If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear.

 

Hope they keep it up! :thumb:

 

 

Or...it may not have. I believe that's the whole issue. It's the travesty of the invasion of privacy that's at the heart of the debate. It seems to me that leaving the decision to proceed with wire-tapping with out having to prove probable cause is a slippery slope to all-out "Big Brotherism".

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with anyone listening in on any of my calls. It's not like they'd get anything out of them, except that I have an extremely wackadoo group of friends and a dysfunctional family!

I've paid untold thousands into insurance over the past 30 years, with little or no obvious return on investment. But, if I ever needed it it was there. Had I known then what I know now, I could have saved a lot of dough. But I didn't... we never do. We have to do what we can to protect ourselves and our families from potential ruin.

 

Similarly, I've seen a doctor regularly for over 40 years, with no news of dire illness. There are some proceedures my doctor does that I consider an extreme invasion of privacy, but I'm told they are necessary.

 

I'm sorry, but I consider the basic preventative maintenance of security and safety of individual lives more important that SOME potential incursons into my (and your) privacy.

 

There is no proof that this program has been used to tap average "vanilla" citizens anyway.

I have read several posts on here and I would have to agree with Rockmom. The First Amendment was meant to insure that government DID NOT ENDORSE ANY RELIGION! The reason for this is simple. The people that came to America in some cases were looking for riches, but many came because their particular sect of Christianity was being persecuted in Europe.

 

The Puritains come to America because they would not bow to the Church of England. The Huegunots (sp.?) came from France because they would not bow to the Catholic Church. Catholics set up the colony of Maryland because they would not bow to the Church of England. William Penn and the Quakers set up Pennsylvania because of the intolerance of the Church of England. Even here in the colonies, Roger Williams leaves the Massachusetts Bay Colony because the Puritains were inflexible and sets up Rhode Island based on Religious Tolerance.

 

It is not the government's job, nor should it be, to preach a religion. That is each individual citizens right. The public school, which is paid for by taxpayer dollars, is not the place for government to tell children to believe a certain religion. And the argument that religion has been kicked out of schools is unfounded. Many schools across the United States have student religious organizations that meet in schools. The Supreme Court has upheld, and rightly so, a student's right to read the Bible in school as long as it is not interfereing with classroom instruction (if the class gets free reading time, the Bible is as good or better a book to read). Students can pray anytime they wish to in school, and I would dare say that many students do pray at various times through the school day.

 

Every time I hear the argument that religion has been kicked out of school, it amazes me that people tend to forget why many of the colonists left Europe and came to America. During the time of Colonizaiton of America, Europe was involved in warfare concerning religion.... Religion was being used by governments as a reason to send people to kill others. Many people in Europe left to come to the colonies to escape the persecution and to live as they believed, not as government told them to believe.

 

Religion is the right of the individual citizen. Our founding fathers understood that they needed to protect people's rights to practice their religious beliefs without interference from their government. They remembered what had happened in Europe when government got involved in religion and wished not to follow that example.

I have read several posts on here and I would have to agree with Rockmom. The First Amendment was meant to insure that government DID NOT ENDORSE ANY RELIGION! The reason for this is simple. The people that came to America in some cases were looking for riches, but many came because their particular sect of Christianity was being persecuted in Europe.

 

The Puritains come to America because they would not bow to the Church of England. The Huegunots (sp.?) came from France because they would not bow to the Catholic Church. Catholics set up the colony of Maryland because they would not bow to the Church of England. William Penn and the Quakers set up Pennsylvania because of the intolerance of the Church of England. Even here in the colonies, Roger Williams leaves the Massachusetts Bay Colony because the Puritains were inflexible and sets up Rhode Island based on Religious Tolerance.

 

It is not the government's job, nor should it be, to preach a religion. That is each individual citizens right. The public school, which is paid for by taxpayer dollars, is not the place for government to tell children to believe a certain religion. And the argument that religion has been kicked out of schools is unfounded. Many schools across the United States have student religious organizations that meet in schools. The Supreme Court has upheld, and rightly so, a student's right to read the Bible in school as long as it is not interfereing with classroom instruction (if the class gets free reading time, the Bible is as good or better a book to read). Students can pray anytime they wish to in school, and I would dare say that many students do pray at various times through the school day.

 

Every time I hear the argument that religion has been kicked out of school, it amazes me that people tend to forget why many of the colonists left Europe and came to America. During the time of Colonizaiton of America, Europe was involved in warfare concerning religion.... Religion was being used by governments as a reason to send people to kill others. Many people in Europe left to come to the colonies to escape the persecution and to live as they believed, not as government told them to believe.

 

Religion is the right of the individual citizen. Our founding fathers understood that they needed to protect people's rights to practice their religious beliefs without interference from their government. They remembered what had happened in Europe when government got involved in religion and wished not to follow that example.

 

:thumb:

 

I would also have to add, that if religion in school is a priority for one, the constitution also guarantees that you have the right to choose a religiously affiliated school, and that such schools may exist, without government interference.

:thumb:

 

I would also have to add, that if religion in school is a priority for one, the constitution also guarantees that you have the right to choose a religiously affiliated school, and that such schools may exist, without government interference.

 

 

I agree again.... Yes, people have the right to send their children to religiously-affiliated schools without government interference.

Welcome to the site, Throwinglong...good posts! :thumb:

I have read several posts on here and I would have to agree with Rockmom. The First Amendment was meant to insure that government DID NOT ENDORSE ANY RELIGION! The reason for this is simple. The people that came to America in some cases were looking for riches, but many came because their particular sect of Christianity was being persecuted in Europe.

 

The Puritains come to America because they would not bow to the Church of England. The Huegunots (sp.?) came from France because they would not bow to the Catholic Church. Catholics set up the colony of Maryland because they would not bow to the Church of England. William Penn and the Quakers set up Pennsylvania because of the intolerance of the Church of England. Even here in the colonies, Roger Williams leaves the Massachusetts Bay Colony because the Puritains were inflexible and sets up Rhode Island based on Religious Tolerance.

 

It is not the government's job, nor should it be, to preach a religion. That is each individual citizens right. The public school, which is paid for by taxpayer dollars, is not the place for government to tell children to believe a certain religion. And the argument that religion has been kicked out of schools is unfounded. Many schools across the United States have student religious organizations that meet in schools. The Supreme Court has upheld, and rightly so, a student's right to read the Bible in school as long as it is not interfereing with classroom instruction (if the class gets free reading time, the Bible is as good or better a book to read). Students can pray anytime they wish to in school, and I would dare say that many students do pray at various times through the school day.

 

Every time I hear the argument that religion has been kicked out of school, it amazes me that people tend to forget why many of the colonists left Europe and came to America. During the time of Colonizaiton of America, Europe was involved in warfare concerning religion.... Religion was being used by governments as a reason to send people to kill others. Many people in Europe left to come to the colonies to escape the persecution and to live as they believed, not as government told them to believe.

 

Religion is the right of the individual citizen. Our founding fathers understood that they needed to protect people's rights to practice their religious beliefs without interference from their government. They remembered what had happened in Europe when government got involved in religion and wished not to follow that example.

Ironically wasn't the beginning of schools in this country throught the churches. In buildings that was the school M-F and the church on Sunday.

 

I believe the founding fathers, though, expected the people elected into office to be upstanding moral citizens that were founded in Christian faith.

Ironically wasn't the beginning of schools in this country throught the churches. In buildings that was the school M-F and the church on Sunday.

Very true, but does that change the premise that schools for those wishing their faith to be taught DO exist, and CAN exist because the Constitution guarantees that no one faith will be govenmentally sanctioned?

 

I believe the founding fathers, though, expected the people elected into office to be upstanding moral citizens that were founded in Christian faith.

 

How can it be realistic to have a Constitution that guarantees freedom to practice your religious beliefs, even if NOT Christian, yet expect that only Christians be elected? As well, I call into question the adjectives "moral", and "upstanding" in relation to many of our present and past elected "Christian" leaders. To imply that only Christians can be upstanding and moral is to blatantly disregard the Constitution as it is written.

 

We cannot speculate on what the "intent" of the Founding Fathers may have been. We have the written Constitution, and it's very clear.

I have no problem if the government wants to listen into my phone conversations. I also highly doubt they just go randomly and pick a random person and decide to tap their phones for a couple days.

I have no problem if the government wants to listen into my phone conversations. I also highly doubt they just go randomly and pick a random person and decide to tap their phones for a couple days.

Exactly! :thumb:

A question to those who know more about the constitution than I do....These constitutional rights only apply to full-fledged American citizens correct?

Yes, schools began in churches in the United States and the Bible was read aloud and they had school prayer. As the states began to create free public education for all students so that they could develop educated citizens that would fuel their economies, the public schools continued some of the things that were happening in these first schools. The problem comes as America becomes a more diverse country, the Constitution was meant to protect all Americans' rights. Those rights include the idea that government WILL NOT PROMOTE A PARTICULAR RELIGION. People began to request that these rights be upheld (Engle v. Vitale, and others). The Courts have also upheld the right of individuals to send their children to schools of their choosing.

 

Does this mean that religion has been removed from our public schools? There are some that would lead you to believe that this is the core reason our society is deteriorating. As I have said earlier, however, that religion has not left our schools. Across the US, student religious organizations meet in schools during the school year. I also seriously doubt that there is a school in the US where there are absolutely no students praying during the course of a school day. Religion is an individual right and choice. It is not the place of the government or government run education to promote any particular religion. If individuals wish for their children to get an education that includes a religious point of view, there are a great number of excellent private religious schools that are available.

 

As far as our public officials being "upstanding moral citizens founded in the Christian faith," I agree that public officials need to be held to a high standard. I however don't think the founding fathers would have intended for us to eliminate a portion of our population from public office because they are not founded in Christian Faith. We have a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people." I believe Lincoln meant ALL OF THE PEOPLE. The American people need to hold there elected officials to a high standard as to how they serve their country best. This does not mean that a person gives up their faith, people are not robots. But those that represent us in government must represent ALL OF US. It is our diversity and our willingness to listen, debate and be tolerant of each other that makes us a great nation.

 

" I may not agree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it." -- Patrick Henry, if I am not mistaken....