Free Will

[The Professor]

Does "Free-Will" give God a 'get out of jail pass' when atrocities like Virginia Tech and 9-11 occur? It's always the answer when these kind of things happen. Is it a 'cop out'?

 

"God gives everyone 'free-will' is always the explanation for anything bad that happens when you ask why terrible things happen. It's like, "Put the blame somewhere else, BUT don't look my way." I created this, but now it's your baby. Deal with it."

 

Just a question. I'm open to opinions. Don't get me wrong. I was raised a Christian...I still pray....but I'm confused.

[Jim Schue]

I would also ask this: How can free will be reconciled with phrases such as "God has his reasons?"

[owsleyking]

I have heard the phrase 'everything happens for a reason' so much that it almost sickens me. I was 11 years old when the Manson murders occured and the events of that time have haunted me over and over again...what happened this week,and other events like it,only make me wonder...WHY??..and what possible reason could this serve??

[Chenoweth]

Does "Free-Will" give God a 'get out of jail pass' when atrocities like Virginia Tech and 9-11 occur? It's always the answer when these kind of things happen. Is it a 'cop out'?

 

"God gives everyone 'free-will' is always the explanation for anything bad that happens when you ask why terrible things happen. It's like, "Put the blame somewhere else, BUT don't look my way." I created this, but now it's your baby. Deal with it."

 

Just a question. I'm open to opinions. Don't get me wrong. I was raised a Christian...I still pray....but I'm confused.

 

Not sure how that gives God a "pass", but...

 

What is the opposite of having "free will"? Would you have rather God created the young man at VA Tech. (and you and I and everyone else) with this method rather than "free will"?

 

Interesting question, but it is like giving a nickle answer to a $1,000,000 question.

[75center]

1) God doesn't need a free pass.

2) I don't believe everything happens for a reason.

3) I do believe in the free will argument.

[Hasbeen]

To attempt to understand our relationship with God, It helps me to look at our own family structures. In raising our children, we love them, we instruct them, we attempt to install our values and beliefs. Then, at some point, we must let go, allow them to make their own way. I believe, as someone said in another thread, that God is greiving for the shooter as much as those who were shot. I think God set up the family structure to teach us how he operates.

[HHSballer19]

To attempt to understand our relationship with God, It helps me to look at our own family structures. In raising our children, we love them, we instruct them, we attempt to install our values and beliefs. Then, at some point, we must let go, allow them to make their own way. I believe, as someone said in another thread, that God is greiving for the shooter as much as those who were shot. I think God set up the family structure to teach us how he operates.

 

Yeah and what about those 32 people? What did they learn?

[The Red Rambler]

Yeah and what about those 32 people? What did they learn?

 

Well they learned life is temporary. They leanred that God is soveirgn and important and that the World can snatch them into the afterlife at a moments notice because Man allowed sin to come inton the world. They may have also learned how awesome heaven is compared to Earth. They be walking streets of Gold, sitting at the throne of God, or hugging their relatives that had gone on before them. The Shooter learned that even though he thought everyone was against him there was someone crying out for a realtionship with him. Jesus wanted to to help him feel important and valued, but for whatever reason he either couldn't hear him or someone here in the World perverted the message and turned him away.

 

Anyway chances are the 32 victims are a lot happier than we are right now. Death is not an end, only the beginning.

 

As for Free Will being a "Get out jail free card" that is hardly true. God gave man the choice to allow evil in the world and we chose to eat of the fruit. Things that happen in the world are not the fault of God, but the fault of man. If everyone trusted in God this would not happen. You can't expect people who live apart from him to be good and make the right choices all the time. Adam and Eve severed the relationship between man and God and Jesus restored it, but he resotred it only if you want to have it. I have often heard it said it takes 100 steps to know God, and God has taken 99 of them, but the last one is up to you.

 

Bottomline without free will we would all be robots. God gave Cho a choice- choose him or choose the other path. Unfortunately the other path led to a tragic end for those here on Earth but it sent them to a new Beginning for Eternity. There lives are hardly over.

[Hasbeen]

Yeah and what about those 32 people? What did they learn?

 

 

I never said any of this was a learning experience. I pointed out that, in my opinion, God does not control all that we do. He has given us a conscious and direction and it is up to each of us what we do with it.

[HHSballer19]

I never said any of this was a learning experience. I pointed out that, in my opinion, God does not control all that we do. He has given us a conscious and direction and it is up to each of us what we do with it.

 

 

I'm sorry, I misread your post. :thumb:

[panther15z30]

Everytime something bad happens like this a lot people look at God and try to blame him and say, "why did you let this happen?" But I think we forget sometimes that he is not the only one in this wolrd. Satan is here as well.

[Graybeard]

Well they learned life is temporary. They leanred that God is soveirgn and important and that the World can snatch them into the afterlife at a moments notice because Man allowed sin to come inton the world. They may have also learned how awesome heaven is compared to Earth. They be walking streets of Gold, sitting at the throne of God, or hugging their relatives that had gone on before them. The Shooter learned that even though he thought everyone was against him there was someone crying out for a realtionship with him. Jesus wanted to to help him feel important and valued, but for whatever reason he either couldn't hear him or someone here in the World perverted the message and turned him away.

 

Anyway chances are the 32 victims are a lot happier than we are right now. Death is not an end, only the beginning.

 

As for Free Will being a "Get out jail free card" that is hardly true. God gave man the choice to allow evil in the world and we chose to eat of the fruit. Things that happen in the world are not the fault of God, but the fault of man. If everyone trusted in God this would not happen. You can't expect people who live apart from him to be good and make the right choices all the time. Adam and Eve severed the relationship between man and God and Jesus restored it, but he resotred it only if you want to have it. I have often heard it said it takes 100 steps to know God, and God has taken 99 of them, but the last one is up to you.

 

Bottomline without free will we would all be robots. God gave Cho a choice- choose him or choose the other path. Unfortunately the other path led to a tragic end for those here on Earth but it sent them to a new Beginning for Eternity. There lives are hardly over.

 

 

Well said, Red. :thumb:

[THEGREENDANDY]

That nut got what he wanted. Satan. Hope he burns...IMHO.

[cvillecat]

Well they learned life is temporary. They leanred that God is soveirgn and important and that the World can snatch them into the afterlife at a moments notice because Man allowed sin to come inton the world. They may have also learned how awesome heaven is compared to Earth. They be walking streets of Gold, sitting at the throne of God, or hugging their relatives that had gone on before them. The Shooter learned that even though he thought everyone was against him there was someone crying out for a realtionship with him. Jesus wanted to to help him feel important and valued, but for whatever reason he either couldn't hear him or someone here in the World perverted the message and turned him away.

 

Anyway chances are the 32 victims are a lot happier than we are right now. Death is not an end, only the beginning.

 

As for Free Will being a "Get out jail free card" that is hardly true. God gave man the choice to allow evil in the world and we chose to eat of the fruit. Things that happen in the world are not the fault of God, but the fault of man. If everyone trusted in God this would not happen. You can't expect people who live apart from him to be good and make the right choices all the time. Adam and Eve severed the relationship between man and God and Jesus restored it, but he resotred it only if you want to have it. I have often heard it said it takes 100 steps to know God, and God has taken 99 of them, but the last one is up to you.

 

Bottomline without free will we would all be robots. God gave Cho a choice- choose him or choose the other path. Unfortunately the other path led to a tragic end for those here on Earth but it sent them to a new Beginning for Eternity. There lives are hardly over.

Excellent once again RedRambler.

[the mathemagician]

Well they learned life is temporary. They leanred that God is soveirgn and important and that the World can snatch them into the afterlife at a moments notice because Man allowed sin to come inton the world. They may have also learned how awesome heaven is compared to Earth. They be walking streets of Gold, sitting at the throne of God, or hugging their relatives that had gone on before them. The Shooter learned that even though he thought everyone was against him there was someone crying out for a realtionship with him. Jesus wanted to to help him feel important and valued, but for whatever reason he either couldn't hear him or someone here in the World perverted the message and turned him away.

 

Anyway chances are the 32 victims are a lot happier than we are right now. Death is not an end, only the beginning.

 

As for Free Will being a "Get out jail free card" that is hardly true. God gave man the choice to allow evil in the world and we chose to eat of the fruit. Things that happen in the world are not the fault of God, but the fault of man. If everyone trusted in God this would not happen. You can't expect people who live apart from him to be good and make the right choices all the time. Adam and Eve severed the relationship between man and God and Jesus restored it, but he resotred it only if you want to have it. I have often heard it said it takes 100 steps to know God, and God has taken 99 of them, but the last one is up to you.

 

Bottomline without free will we would all be robots. God gave Cho a choice- choose him or choose the other path. Unfortunately the other path led to a tragic end for those here on Earth but it sent them to a new Beginning for Eternity. There lives are hardly over.

 

 

 

Are they? There is a very good possibility that a number of them weren't believers and thus weren't saved and may have not had time to cry out to God. According to what most Christians believe, they are in hell now.