I would not limit it to just 3-5 but just picked those spots because we were discussing Dunn. I think offensively (ONLY) the 1-5 spots carry more responsibility and in the long run will prove more vital to your team offensively than the 6, 7, 8 hitters.

Don't agree with you. Once the game begins, often times the middle to bottom part of the order, will leadoff innings....which means, they are assuming the role of the batting order positions, like I mentioned. If the 6 man leads off, then hitting behind the runner, advancing, etc....comes into play.

 

It doesn't always work, but most coaches approach with that philosophy.

Don't agree with you. Once the game begins, often times the middle to bottom part of the order, will leadoff innings....which means, they are assuming the role of the batting order positions, like I mentioned. If the 6 man leads off, then hitting behind the runner, advancing, etc....comes into play.

 

It doesn't always work, but most coaches approach with that philosophy.

 

I see both sides of that coin. Of course there will be opportunities for everyone to lead off innings, just as there will be opportunities for the cleanup man to lead off.

 

But it simply isn't true that the 6-8 spots are just as important as the 1-5 spots. A regular leadoff man will get to the plate close to 700 times per season. Not true of the 7-9 spots.

I see both sides of that coin. Of course there will be opportunities for everyone to lead off innings, just as there will be opportunities for the cleanup man to lead off.

 

But it simply isn't true that the 6-8 spots are just as important as the 1-5 spots. A regular leadoff man will get to the plate close to 700 times per season. Not true of the 7-9 spots.

Couldn't disagree more and here's the reason.

 

You're equating AB's, as more critical and yes, more opportunities are available, but you can still hit .300 for every AB you get.

 

In your scenario you bat 700 times and hit .300, that means you have 210 hits. You bat 500 times and hit .300, that means you have 150 hits....does that mean his 60 more hits, are more valuable to the success of the Reds.

 

In the context of a game, reaching base and scoring runs, is the objective of every player who bats. Yes, without question some will score more, hit more, reach more, walk more, K more....because they get more chances but more, doesn't always equate to important, it equates to opportunities.

Sounds like in your scenario, then, that the #1 and #8 spots are pretty much interchangeable; as are the #7 and #2 slots.

 

That being the case, why isn't Ichiro hitting in the 8 hole?

 

Because his 210 hits ARE more valuable to the team's success than the 150 hits out of the 8 hole.

Sounds like in your scenario, then, that the #1 and #8 spots are pretty much interchangeable; as are the #7 and #2 slots.

 

That being the case, why isn't Ichiro hitting in the 8 hole?

 

Because his 210 hits ARE more valuable to the team's success than the 150 hits out of the 8 hole.

Ichiro hits where he does, because he makes excellent contact, tremendous speed, uses all parts of the field, hits for power and one of the best in the games....You are exactly right, they are often interchangeable and whomever is more productive, is usually up front, to get them more chances.

Blame that on unions and labor agreements, plus mix in greed, by the owners.

 

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Is it not the world we live in?

Is it not the world we live in?

Without question but no one, can ever convince me....ANY MLB player is worth $25mil a year.

 

The salaries for sports figures, will eventually be the downfall of some sports and certain geographical locations, will either fold or move on.

 

$25mil a year to play the field, $13 mil to hit .250, $9 mil a year to pitch....it's disgraceful. I see HOF's, who could be productive today, who never made much in one season or a lifetime, like some of these guys make today, who are below average in talent.

 

Part of the business, of professional sports I loath.

Without question but no one, can ever convince me....ANY MLB player is worth $25mil a year.

 

The salaries for sports figures, will eventually be the downfall of some sports and certain geographical locations, will either fold or move on.

 

$25mil a year to play the field, $13 mil to hit .250, $9 mil a year to pitch....it's disgraceful. I see HOF's, who could be productive today, who never made much in one season or a lifetime, like some of these guys make today, who are below average in talent.

 

Part of the business, of professional sports I loath.

 

It doesn't matter what you or I think. My point is that NO GM in baseball considers all of his players equal. Are you telling me that you believe a team can find an 8th hitter as easily as a 3/4/5/ who can drive in runs?

It doesn't matter what you or I think. My point is that NO GM in baseball considers all of his players equal. Are you telling me that you believe a team can find an 8th hitter as easily as a 3/4/5/ who can drive in runs?

I don't think GM's, go out and say I'm looking for a 8 hitter, to drive in runs. I've clearly labeled, in my opinion only what I thought each spot in the line-up did. Any MLB team, that only relies on 3-5 to drive in runs, will be a bottom tier program which the Reds are.

 

I cleary stated, that I don't agree that "Dunn's role is not more vital, to the Reds success, than that of Ross, E-5, Griffey, Arroyo, Harang, Phillips, Freel, Hamilton....etc., they all have a job to do and that is, help the Reds win, in any manner.

 

I also clearly stated, "In the context of a game, reaching base and scoring runs, is the objective of every player who bats. Yes, without question some will score more, hit more, reach more, walk more, K more....because they get more chances but more, doesn't always equate to important, it equates to opportunities.

 

Good, competitive franchises, acquire and develop talent to help win, not say I need a 6 hitter, or 2 hitter or 8 hitter, but find players that assume a role on the team.

 

9 batters, working together for one common goal, to reach base and score runs. Then factor in the pitching, middle relieve, set-up men and closers, must do their role.....If any, offensive or defensive lapses ocurr, generally one team falters, on a nightly basis, unless someone has had an exceptional day.

Good, competitive franchises, acquire and develop talent to help win, not say I need a 6 hitter, or 2 hitter or 8 hitter, but find players that assume a role on the team.

 

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I disagree. I think a team is always looking to fill a niche and not just get the best ball player regardless of position and type of offensive player they are.

I disagree. I think a team is always looking to fill a niche and not just get the best ball player regardless of position and type of offensive player they are.

Isn't that what I said....acquire and develop talent to help win, not say I need a 6 hitter, or 2 hitter or 8 hitter, but find players that assume a role on the team. Some teams acquire for depth of position (C, OF), needs defensively (IF, C), need offensively (Hits, HR's, RBI's, Speed) and others, sign whomever is on the waivers....

 

Successful franchises, do it predominately through 3 methods....

(1) Farm system and advance

(2) Free-agency and spend, spend spend...which eventually will haunt you.

(3) A middle compromise, of a little of both.

Majewski sent down to Louisville. Brad Salmon brought up.

 

Now you know...

That's the move that takes them over the top! :thumb:

They may have won yesterday had they made the move 36 hours ago.

Can anyone else remember the last player to so polarize a fan base (speaking of Dunn)?