12 hours ago, New Colonel said:

Publics cannot permanently expel any student.   So, if a child brings a gun to school, they are expelled for a year or two then must attend school again.  There's also a a long list of procedures for suspending and expelling students of what you cannot do. 

To compound this issue, parts of principal evaluations in some schools (not all) is the based on the amount of suspensions.  The higher the number, the lower your evaluation is.  So, that in itself in counterintuitive.   If a child has an IEP, the list of what you cannot do is multiplied exponentially, especially if the kid's IEP is for anything behavioral.

Then, with everything in a public school being public record, you sometimes get media to do biased reporting to try to stir up controversy saying one group of students accounted for a much higher percentage of discipline incidents.

The whole student discipline thing is a complete mess to put it lightly.  People are always suing the schools over how their child was disciplined.  

Talk to any teacher or principal about how carefully they have to tread, even with serious offenses, because a screw up over the ever changing legal landscape can cost them their job and possibly pension.

100% spot on...with all.

23 hours ago, brooksville said:

Painting with broad strokes there my friend.  Parents and family are still the number one factor in child’s behavior.  You can’t blame a teacher for how a kid acts on the football field where they can’t control their behavior or hold them accountable. That’s directly on the coach and parents. 

This comes down to the players, parents and coaches. Teachers do not get blamed for this. 

13 hours ago, theguru said:

I would love to hear what some of you with experience have to say about discipline at your school, good or bad?

From a quick read of some of the law, if a school that wants there to be discipline in their school, the school will have discipline.  In other cases I wonder if schools play the "appeasement game" with problematic students and their parents, which is exacerbated by poorly thought out discipline policies.

Either way, a quick review of the law seems like the law gives individual schools the authority to discipline as they see fit.  The question is are schools willing to be disciplinarians?

Anyone?

I taught in a junior high (7th-9th grade) in KY in the late 80's and early 90's.  We had a group home in the county and those kids were required to go to our school.  My worst case was a young man (15 years old, maybe 6-2 and 240 lbs) who arrived at our school in the back of the Sheriff's car.  They took the handcuffs off of him and 15 minutes later he was in my class.  He had been convicted of 17 felonies, the worse being attempted murder.  It would have been murder but the kid he attacked with a pipe didn't die.  He was on heavy doses of thorazine to keep him under control.  (I got this information from his counselor, whom he attacked with a piece of firewood.  The counselor warned me to never turn my back on him.......)  He lasted a little while and ultimately left the way he arrived, in handcuffs in the back of the Sheriff's car.  There is no way someone like that should be in the student population.  I don't know what they ultimately do with someone like that but putting them into school is not a good solution.  I understand that this is an extreme example but we were really lucky that we didn't have someone seriously injured.  The counselor I referred to saw a movement out of the corner of his eye and instinctively ducked or he would probably have had his skull fractured.  

 

9 minutes ago, 24Rocks said:

I taught in a junior high (7th-9th grade) in KY in the late 80's and early 90's.  We had a group home in the county and those kids were required to go to our school.  My worst case was a young man (15 years old, maybe 6-2 and 240 lbs) who arrived at our school in the back of the Sheriff's car.  They took the handcuffs off of him and 15 minutes later he was in my class.  He had been convicted of 17 felonies, the worse being attempted murder.  It would have been murder but the kid he attacked with a pipe didn't die.  He was on heavy doses of thorazine to keep him under control.  (I got this information from his counselor, whom he attacked with a piece of firewood.  The counselor warned me to never turn my back on him.......)  He lasted a little while and ultimately left the way he arrived, in handcuffs in the back of the Sheriff's car.  There is no way someone like that should be in the student population.  I don't know what they ultimately do with someone like that but putting them into school is not a good solution.  I understand that this is an extreme example but we were really lucky that we didn't have someone seriously injured.  The counselor I referred to saw a movement out of the corner of his eye and instinctively ducked or he would probably have had his skull fractured.  

 

It is an extreme example but an important one because it shows us all what is dumped on public schools.  Someone like that didn't belong in a school setting at all and definitely not in a normal classroom.  Maybe an alternative school but still not the right setting for anyone that is violent.

Also from the KRS:

KRS 158.150. Suspension or expulsion of students – Placement into alternative program option

3(c) A board that has expelled a student from the student's regular school setting shall provide or assure that educational services are provided to the student in an appropriate alternative program or setting, unless the board has made a determination, on the record, supported by clear and convincing evidence, that the expelled student posed a threat to the safety of other students or school staff and could not be placed into a state-funded agency program. Behavior which constitutes a threat shall include but not be limited to the physical assault, battery, or abuse of others; the threat of physical force; being under the influence of drugs or alcohol; the use, possession, sale, or transfer of drugs or alcohol; the carrying, possessing, or transfer of weapons or dangerous instruments; and any other behavior which may endanger the safety of others. Other intervention services as indicated for each student may be provided by the board or by agreement with the appropriate state or community agency. A state agency that provides the service shall be responsible for the cost.

(d)(1) In lieu of expelling a student, or upon the expiration of a student's expulsion, a superintendent may place a student into an alternative program or setting if the superintendent determines placement of the student in his or her regular school setting is likely to substantially disrupt the education process or constitutes a threat to the safety of other students or school staff. The action shall not be taken until the parent, guardian, or other person having legal custody or control of the student has had an opportunity to have a hearing before the board or an appeals committee as described in subparagraph 2. Of this paragraph.

2. The board may adopt a policy to establish an appeals committee and delegate the authority to hear appeals made under this paragraph to that committee.

3. The alternative program or setting may be provided virtually.

4. Notwithstanding any other statute or administrative regulation to the contrary, students placed in an alternative program or setting under this paragraph shall be counted in attendance and membership for state funding purposes in the same manner as other students participating in alternative programs of the district.

5. Students placed in an alternative program or setting under this paragraph shall be subject to compulsory attendance requirements under KRS chapter 159 and applicable local board policy.

6. Following the initial alternative placement of a student under this paragraph, the board shall review the alternative program or setting placement at least once per year and determine if the placement should be continued in accordance with subparagraph 1. Of this paragraph.

(4) For purposes of this subsection, "charges" means substantiated behavior that falls within the grounds for suspension or expulsion enumerated in subsection (1) of this section, including behavior committed by a student while enrolled in a private or public school, or in a school within another state. A school board may adopt a policy providing that, if a student is suspended or expelled for any reason or faces charges that may lead to suspension or expulsion but withdraws prior to a hearing from any public or private school in this or any other state, the receiving district may review the details of the charges, suspension, or expulsion and determine if the student will be admitted, and if so, what conditions may be imposed upon the admission, which may include placement of the student into an alternative program or setting as described in subsection (3)(d) of this section.

(5)(b)

5. When a student is removed from a classroom under this paragraph temporarily or permanently, the principal shall determine the placement of the student in lieu of that classroom, which may include but is not limited to:

a. Another classroom in that school;

b. An alternative program or setting, which may be provided virtually, as approved by the superintendent.

Alternative programs are wonderful, until there are budget problems, which is constant.  They always are the first to go.  Many of the general public think they are a big waste of tax dollars. 

5 minutes ago, New Colonel said:

Alternative programs are wonderful, until there are budget problems, which is constant.  They always are the first to go.  Many of the general public think they are a big waste of tax dollars. 

Alternative programs are fine but then go into one of the alternative schools and see how tied their hands are.  Short of committing a criminal offense on school property those students are going nowhere.  Then they eventually will be back.  Those that work in an alternative school truly need to be blessed on a daily basis.

22 hours ago, WKY_Football said:

Now basketball is traveling during summer to Florida & other states. You can play 120 hoops games in the summer plus AAU but football is way too tough. 

Baseball middle school now has seasons in the fall & spring. 
 

Right now KHSAA couldn’t make it more obvious their feelings towards football. 

Football is the cash cow for the KHSAA.

1 minute ago, Thakattack said:

Football is the cash cow for the KHSAA.

How?

9 minutes ago, theguru said:

How?

Look at how when playoffs start especially the state finals how the schools bring an entire community to the game so in that the money that is filling up the coffers for the KHSAA is a big bonus.  When you take schools like for example Boyle County or Corbin on the state finals they may not fill the place up but they have some of the biggest crowds and money flowing.

1 hour ago, cincyswords said:

Alternative programs are fine but then go into one of the alternative schools and see how tied their hands are.  Short of committing a criminal offense on school property those students are going nowhere.  Then they eventually will be back.  Those that work in an alternative school truly need to be blessed on a daily basis.

Absolutely correct. 

1 hour ago, Thakattack said:

Look at how when playoffs start especially the state finals how the schools bring an entire community to the game so in that the money that is filling up the coffers for the KHSAA is a big bonus.  When you take schools like for example Boyle County or Corbin on the state finals they may not fill the place up but they have some of the biggest crowds and money flowing.

This is for you or anyone, what does the KHSAA receive from schools for playoff games?

Also, I assume the stadium expenses are very steep and probably offset the ticket sales.  Does the KHSAA release an accounting of the money made/expenses for football?

1 hour ago, Thakattack said:

Football is the cash cow for the KHSAA.

It's one of them. The Boys' Sweet Sixteen is the highest revenue event, earning around $1.3 million. It could be estimated that the six football games earn between $850k and $1.1 million. 

1 hour ago, theguru said:

This is for you or anyone, what does the KHSAA receive from schools for playoff games?

Also, I assume the stadium expenses are very steep and probably offset the ticket sales.  Does the KHSAA release an accounting of the money made/expenses for football?

The KHSAA receives and retains ticket revenue in the post season from any sanctioned sport ONLY during the championship round/s.

All ticket revenue for the District and Region rounds (from any sport) remains at the local level. The various District and Region administrations and/or tournament committees determine how that revenue is distributed at the local level. 

Just now, MBKT said:

The KHSAA receives and retains ticket revenue in the post season from any sanctioned sport ONLY during the championship round/s.

All ticket revenue for the District and Region rounds (from any sport) remains at the local level. The various District and Region administrations and/or tournament committees determine how that revenue is distributed at the local level. 

I should have clarified STATE championship round/s in the 1st paragraph above. 

KHSAA blowing smoke as usual, when it comes right down to making suspension decisions they will fold time and time again, some actual suspensions we will never see.