13 minutes ago, WKY_Football said:

I also wonder that if KHSAA would allow football activities & 7v7 in June as well as July that kids would get out of travel 7v7 teams & AAU basketball which in turn creates issues imo. 
 

Still seemed kind of weird on the email. Basketball has had numerous issues as well the last few years but it always seems football is under attack in the state. Weird honestly. 

Football is always under attack.

Basketball year around is good. Baseball year around is good. Football for 15 weeks is too much for players bodies.  

Travel out-of-state for a holiday basketball tournament, good. Travel to Florida for a baseball tournament, good. Travel across Kentucky for a football playoff game is just too much. 

9 minutes ago, Ram said:

Football is always under attack.

Basketball year around is good. Baseball year around is good. Football for 15 weeks is too much for players bodies.  

Travel out-of-state for a holiday basketball tournament, good. Travel to Florida for a baseball tournament, good. Travel across Kentucky for a football playoff game is just too much. 

Now basketball is traveling during summer to Florida & other states. You can play 120 hoops games in the summer plus AAU but football is way too tough. 

Baseball middle school now has seasons in the fall & spring. 
 

Right now KHSAA couldn’t make it more obvious their feelings towards football. 

6 hours ago, ChiefSmoke said:

We have been practicing brawls and ejection prevention for a long time.

We simulate an opponent contacting our player and describe the type of verbal exchange our guys may encounter. We have two objectives:

1- protect our teammate.

2- no one gets a penalty or is ejected.

 

https://blackshoesandwhiteshoestrings.blogspot.com/2017/06/no-brawls-or-ejections-practicing.html

And that's why you have been around for many moons Chief! To many this seems trivial.....but it's important and necessary. Game control is a huge part of officiating also. My philosophy was that it was my job to keep the game SAFE and FAIR. You set the tone as a crew from the pregame until the clock hits 00:00 in the fourth quarter. I hope this trend comes to an end. Went to a game between Myrtle Beach and Socastee about 10 years ago. Both were 9-0. Huge rivalry. Had seven separate locations with TSA type metal detectors and police officers wanding people. I was amazed. Told the officer I had never witnessed that in 41 years as a coach or official. He chuckled and said that they did it at middle school games!! 

 

 

3 hours ago, theguru said:

The KHSAA wouldn't have standing here but I think the mass email needs to go out to every elementary school Superintendent and Principal in Kentucky.  What is your school's policy when a child displays aggressive behavior?  When they use profanity?  When they refuse to follow the direction of a teacher?  When there is an actual threat or fight?  And on and on...  Do you "cover it up" or do you "get them in the system" where the child can receive help, guidance, discipline, etc.?  Is your policy progressive meaning the more times a child makes a mistake, the tougher the consequences are for that child?  At what point does the parent face consequences? What point do you get them into the court system?  I know, some of you are rolling your eyes now.  Well, roll them on the result, out of control teenagers and now the adults don't know what to do beyond sternly worded emails and blaming the culture that our society has tacitly approved of for decades. 

Honestly everyone, I think we have an adult problem.  The adults (schools in this case) fail children again and again by not disciplining them from an early age and eventually it leads to violent behavior.  Once a child gets to middle school, it is too late.  And doing something about it in high school, lol lol lol lol lol...

I agree that discipline in school is not like it use to be. Shoot discipline in sports is not like it use to be. However, a big reason for that kind of goes back to parents these days. When the discipline in schools and sports were better. Parents use not to fight it and allowed schools, coaches, etc to do what they thought was best. That is not the case anymore, now anytime little Johnny gets in trouble. Parents storm in and would fight schools and coaches on discipline for their sweet little Johnny. Hence, how schools and coaches hands get tied a lot these days, and not able to discipline the way they may want to.
 

Gone are the days of a student gets a bad grade, and parent mad at the student. It is now the teachers fault. Gone are the days of a player not giving effort, or not knowing plays for why he doesn’t play and parent saying work harder and supporting the coach. It is now the coaches fault. Player doesn’t get a scholarship for a sport, obviously the coaches fault, because my little Johnny is a star. 
 

In regards to fighting on the field. Coaches definitely can help prevent that. Sometimes it is simply bad coaching. However, even when coaches try to hold players accountable these days. Parents don’t make it easy on coaches in making that happen. 

1 minute ago, futurecoach said:

I agree that discipline in school is not like it use to be. Shoot discipline in sports is not like it use to be. However, a big reason for that kind of goes back to parents these days. When the discipline in schools and sports were better. Parents use not to fight it and allowed schools, coaches, etc to do what they thought was best. That is not the case anymore, now anytime little Johnny gets in trouble. Parents storm in and would fight schools and coaches on discipline for their sweet little Johnny. Hence, how schools and coaches hands get tied a lot these days, and not able to discipline the way they may want to.
 

Gone are the days of a student gets a bad grade, and parent mad at the student. It is now the teachers fault. Gone are the days of a player not giving effort, or not knowing plays for why he doesn’t play and parent saying work harder and supporting the coach. It is now the coaches fault. Player doesn’t get a scholarship for a sport, obviously the coaches fault, because my little Johnny is a star. 
 

In regards to fighting on the field. Coaches definitely can help prevent that. Sometimes it is simply bad coaching. However, even when coaches try to hold players accountable these days. Parents don’t make it easy on coaches in making that happen. 

I doubt that is the case in most private schools. 

6 minutes ago, theguru said:

I doubt that is the case in most private schools. 

Yeah cause private school can simply kick that student out if behavior is bad or even not performing well academically. Parents are paying money to attend, so they are more likely to support the school in some discipline matters and also with grades. Cause if not that private school can just say ok then see you later. Public schools don’t have that luxury. Parent may have no issue with their kid getting a free education from a public school. However at the same time they also will fight schools if try to discipline their little Johnny, or obviously school fault if little Johnny is failing cause of not doing his work. 
 

Now private schools have other issues. Like rich parents with lots money they donate having to much say, and if they don’t like a coach even if they are very successful they may be able to provide pressure go get that coach out as we have seen. However, that’s a whole other topic. 

Just now, futurecoach said:

Yeah cause private school can simply kick that student out if behavior is bad or even not performing well academically. Parents are paying money to attend, so they are more likely to support the school in some discipline matters and also with grades. Cause if not that private school can just say ok then see you later. Public schools don’t have that luxury. Parent may have no issue with their kid getting a free education from a public school. However at the same time they also will fight schools if try to discipline their little Johnny, or obviously school fault if little Johnny is failing cause of not doing his work. 
 

Now private schools have other issues. Like rich parents with lots money they donate having to much say, and if they don’t like a coach even if they are very successful they may be able to provide pressure go get that coach out as we have seen. However, that’s a whole other topic. 

Rich parents aside, what you are describing is a public school discipline problem. 

4 minutes ago, theguru said:

Rich parents aside, what you are describing is a public school discipline problem. 

I completely agree there is a discipline problem. I’m stating the discipline problem, goes back to how parents are now for why schools have discipline issues. Parents fight schools these days over any little thing if it involves disciplining their little Johnny. Which has essentially tied schools hands in regards to doing much. You see it with sports too. Coaches try to discipline little Johnny or bench him  for missing practice or not giving effort. Parents raise a huge fuss and also try to get coaches fired. Which is why so many coaches, teachers, etc are leaving the profession. It is the parents, because parents don’t allow for schools or teams to discipline their little Johnny. 

16 minutes ago, futurecoach said:

I completely agree there is a discipline problem. I’m stating the discipline problem, goes back to how parents are now for why schools have discipline issues. Parents fight schools these days over any little thing if it involves disciplining their little Johnny. Which has essentially tied schools hands in regards to doing much. You see it with sports too. Coaches try to discipline little Johnny or bench him  for missing practice or not giving effort. Parents raise a huge fuss and also try to get coaches fired. Which is why so many coaches, teachers, etc are leaving the profession. It is the parents, because parents don’t allow for schools or teams to discipline their little Johnny. 

Still a school issue.  Discipline the child and tell the parent to pound salt or withdraw and go to another school.  Additionally, problem children should be moved to district alternative schools so they don't interfere with the education of the other children. 

2 hours ago, theguru said:

Still a school issue.  Discipline the child and tell the parent to pound salt or withdraw and go to another school.  Additionally, problem children should be moved to district alternative schools so they don't interfere with the education of the other children. 

Unfortunately it's not a school issue, it's a legal issue.  Public schools are handcuffed with what they can and can't do with student discipline.   

Students must get an education in their district.  Period.  No matter how unbelievably horrible the offense may be, you have to let them back in.  Schools want to do more with discipline, I assure you.

5 hours ago, Ram said:

Football is always under attack.

Basketball year around is good. Baseball year around is good. Football for 15 weeks is too much for players bodies.  

Travel out-of-state for a holiday basketball tournament, good. Travel to Florida for a baseball tournament, good. Travel across Kentucky for a football playoff game is just too much. 

They might only play games for 15 weeks but most of the good programs train year round.  Boyle County has them coming in before school during basketball season to lift and do drills.  It's considered "voluntary" for the dual sport athletes but I doubt if many of them want to skip the workouts because they'll be afraid they'll lose their spot.

I have a different take on it.  I don't consider any sport year round to be good.  I'd like to see limits imposed.  More is not necessarily better.  Back in my teaching days I had a chemistry class first period and the girl's basketball players struggled to stay awake because the coach ran them to death.  

6 minutes ago, New Colonel said:

Unfortunately it's not a school issue, it's a legal issue.  Public schools are handcuffed with what they can and can't do with student discipline.   

Students must get an education in their district.  Period.  No matter how unbelievably horrible the offense may be, you have to let them back in.  Schools want to do more with discipline, I assure you.

What is the legal issue?  

Just now, theguru said:

What is the legal issue?  

Publics cannot permanently expel any student.   So, if a child brings a gun to school, they are expelled for a year or two then must attend school again.  There's also a a long list of procedures for suspending and expelling students of what you cannot do. 

To compound this issue, parts of principal evaluations in some schools (not all) is the based on the amount of suspensions.  The higher the number, the lower your evaluation is.  So, that in itself in counterintuitive.   If a child has an IEP, the list of what you cannot do is multiplied exponentially, especially if the kid's IEP is for anything behavioral.

Then, with everything in a public school being public record, you sometimes get media to do biased reporting to try to stir up controversy saying one group of students accounted for a much higher percentage of discipline incidents.

The whole student discipline thing is a complete mess to put it lightly.  People are always suing the schools over how their child was disciplined.  

Talk to any teacher or principal about how carefully they have to tread, even with serious offenses, because a screw up over the ever changing legal landscape can cost them their job and possibly pension.

4 minutes ago, New Colonel said:

Publics cannot permanently expel any student.   So, if a child brings a gun to school, they are expelled for a year or two then must attend school again.  There's also a a long list of procedures for suspending and expelling students of what you cannot do. 

To compound this issue, parts of principal evaluations in some schools (not all) is the based on the amount of suspensions.  The higher the number, the lower your evaluation is.  So, that in itself in counterintuitive.   If a child has an IEP, the list of what you cannot do is multiplied exponentially, especially if the kid's IEP is for anything behavioral.

Then, with everything in a public school being public record, you sometimes get media to do biased reporting to try to stir up controversy saying one group of students accounted for a much higher percentage of discipline incidents.

The whole student discipline thing is a complete mess to put it lightly.  People are always suing the schools over how their child was disciplined.  

Talk to any teacher or principal about how carefully they have to tread, even with serious offenses, because a screw up over the ever changing legal landscape can cost them their job and possibly pension.

I would characterize most of that as a school issue and not a legal issue. If there are actual legal statues that dictate how student discipline is to be administered, those would be legal issues. What you posted reads like the schools are their own worst enemies with self-imposed mandates, procedures, red tape, and counterintuitive policies that make dealing with problematic students extremely difficult. The principal evaluation issue you mentioned is ridiculous.  

Just now, theguru said:

I would characterize most of that as a school issue and not a legal issue. If there are actual legal statues that dictate how student discipline is to be administered, those would be legal issues. What you posted reads like the schools are their own worst enemies with self-imposed mandates, procedures, red tape, and counterintuitive policies that make dealing with problematic students extremely difficult. The principal evaluation issue you mentioned is ridiculous.  

There are legal statutes for how to suspend and expel.  A lot of them.  Even more if a child has an IEP.  Schools must follow these.  And a child must get an education in the district that they reside, that's federal law.  Schools cannot permanently prevent that from happening.   That's legal, not a school imposed issue.