1 hour ago, cheercoachwes said:

I feel like it's a selective call. Take a team from one "basketball region" into the next, and that team is bound to have 3-4 phantom holds. The percentage of times that they occur on 70 yard touchdown runs is curious at the least. Since it truly does happen on virtually every play, it's the number one way for an official to determine the outcome of a game. 

It’s not curious at all. if the hold occurs at the point of attack it’s often the block that creates the big hole leading to the TD. Or it’s the block that gives the QB that extra second to hit a receiver as he comes open. Holds rarely get called if the defender beats the block and makes the tackle for a loss or for no gain. 
 

I don’t believe the statement that holds happen on every play, in my 40+ years of being around football, and thousands of hours of film study, the majority of holding calls I’ve reviewed have been correct, even if I initially in the moment thought they weren’t. And I’ve seen more plays where a hold hasn’t happened than I can count. The excuse that refs are trying to influence the outcome of a game by picking and choosing when to call a hold isn’t true. Quite frankly, it’s just an excuse for getting beat.

"A holding call is in the eye of the beholder"-Unknown

On 11/5/2023 at 9:59 AM, rjs4470 said:

How long ago was that? I’ve been involved with HS football as a player and coach since 1984 and holding has always been 10 yards.

I was officiating beginning in 1980. Can't remember when we went to the NCAA rule of 10yards but a spot foul.

As a high school football statistician, I am so grateful for this year's change in the offensive holding rules that the 10 yard mark off is from the line of scrimmage.  1st and 20 is so much easier to record than 1st and 17, for example (with me giving the running back 3 yards credit prior to a 10 yard spot foul mark off).  In previous years that got really annoying because certain referees just loved calling spot fouls all game.

12 hours ago, nkypete said:

As a high school football statistician, I am so grateful for this year's change in the offensive holding rules that the 10 yard mark off is from the line of scrimmage.  1st and 20 is so much easier to record than 1st and 17, for example (with me giving the running back 3 yards credit prior to a 10 yard spot foul mark off).  In previous years that got really annoying because certain referees just loved calling spot fouls all game.

That's because certain teams continue to commit them all game lol.

Just now, 9068 said:

That's because certain teams continue to commit them all game lol.

Not arguing with that.  Sometimes it got to the point where I thought they were just trying to impress us with their math skills on the spot fouls.  The key was always watching the umpire's feet when he started the walk off.

I have a novel idea: Instead of picking and choosing which plays to call a hold, why not call ALL the holds? Players will adjust and stop holding if the rule is consistently enforced. The fact that it's usually not called makes kids think it's ok to do it.

5 hours ago, Just Truth said:

I have a novel idea: Instead of picking and choosing which plays to call a hold, why not call ALL the holds? Players will adjust and stop holding if the rule is consistently enforced. The fact that it's usually not called makes kids think it's ok to do it.

I agree.  The issue is none of the rules are enforced consistently anymore.  Pass interference drives me crazy, defenders throwing kids to the ground one week, the next week the officiating crew throws a flag if a defender breathes on a receiver wrong.  I also have heard officials say this year that "the pass was uncatchable" which isn't part of the PI rule in high school.

The one that really gets me is the equipment one.  Players are supposed to have knee pads that cover the knees and jerseys tucked in.  Yet every single game, kids roll their pants, cut knee pads to ridiculously small size, and have back plates exposed.  I even see tinted visors on occasion.  I also see multiple kids without mouthpieces on every play. All of these are blatant rules violations, yet officials look the other way.  

I know there is a big officiating issue, especially in the Commonwealth, but the consistency of enforcing rules has to be addressed.  Some are very simple rules that crews deliberately look the other way on.  Just because you may not like the rule, doesn't mean you get to selectively enforce it.

Until these simple issues get resolved, no way will the holding issue come close to being resolved.

5 hours ago, Just Truth said:

I have a novel idea: Instead of picking and choosing which plays to call a hold, why not call ALL the holds? Players will adjust and stop holding if the rule is consistently enforced. The fact that it's usually not called makes kids think it's ok to do it.

What's the record for the worlds longest high school game? It may not make it out of the first quarter.

On 11/8/2023 at 9:10 AM, nkypete said:

Not arguing with that.  Sometimes it got to the point where I thought they were just trying to impress us with their math skills on the spot fouls.  The key was always watching the umpire's feet when he started the walk off.

True story....... worked with a guy that was vertically challenged. Called two straight encroachment penalties......and it wasn't enough for a first down after an initial first and ten. Got him straightened out.....in a hurry lol.

On 11/5/2023 at 10:25 AM, nikeman49 said:

Problem with this call is that it can be called on every single play from scrimmage, and officials wait until a team drives the entire field and then flags it, also a hold that has absolutely nothing to do with the play gets called, maybe something on the other side of the field, and this drives coaches nuts, just a little common sense officiating is always nice to see.

This is absolutely the worst call in football. Can't stand an official who makes that call. 

My initial thought is holding should be obvious. Like others have said, you could call it on every play, so some common sense needs to be applied. 

We've all seen plays and thought "That was definitely holding." Those are the ones that should be flagged.

21 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

This is absolutely the worst call in football. Can't stand an official who makes that call. 

I guess that you are not a believer in the "Butterfly Effect"!

The only problem I see with the penalty is that defensive holding is not an automatic first down. There are so many penalties at the second level, particularly in the red zone, that amount to little or no real change in field position that players just hold or pass interfere with almost no repercussion. To me, defensive holding or PI in the end zone should be an automatic first down and ball on the two yard line. Not half the distance and replay the down. Why is the defense awarded a safety when the offense draws a flag backed up in their own end zone and not "half the distance?" Isn't this the same scenario?

Makes zero sense.

The DPI rules in high school (NFHS) has to do with the theory that skill players at this level are not talented enough to have that call come with that serious of a penalty. In that instance it's a win win for the defense.