Ortiz gets in on the first ballot. Bonds and Clemens fall short in their 10th year. 

MLB and the people that vote on the HOF are a joke. 

Most Hits, Most HRs, and Most Cy Young Awards are all left out of the Hall of Fame, thus Cooperstown is irrelevant. 

Well the most homeruns wouldn't have that record if not for the 'roids, but the point is well made.  The sad thing is, steroids or no, both Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens would have easily been HOF worthy, and therefore, belong.  I had no problem with making them wait, but excluded entirely? Ludicrous. 

5 minutes ago, DragonFire said:

Well the most homeruns wouldn't have that record if not for the 'roids, but the point is well made. 

We don't know that. He still had to hit the ball.

7 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

We don't know that. He still had to hit the ball.

We don't "know" that, but come on. He beat Aaron by 7.  You're telling me you don't think steroids accounted for enough for him to have not gotten it? Bonds is an incredible player, one of the best to ever play, but there will be no convincing me that steroids didn't enable him to beat Aaron when he otherwise wouldn't.

They intentionally walked him with bases loaded.

So many of the stats coming out comparing him and Big Papi are unreal.  Like turn every HR that Bonds hit into an out and he still blows Ortiz out of the water on OBP.

26 minutes ago, DragonFire said:

We don't "know" that, but come on. He beat Aaron by 7.  You're telling me you don't think steroids accounted for enough for him to have not gotten it? Bonds is an incredible player, one of the best to ever play, but there will be no convincing me that steroids didn't enable him to beat Aaron when he otherwise wouldn't.

Again, we have no idea. 

We can agree that it could have helped him. We'll have to disagree he wouldn't have done it otherwise. 

40 minutes ago, DragonFire said:

We don't "know" that, but come on. He beat Aaron by 7.  You're telling me you don't think steroids accounted for enough for him to have not gotten it? Bonds is an incredible player, one of the best to ever play, but there will be no convincing me that steroids didn't enable him to beat Aaron when he otherwise wouldn't.

I can get on board with this. We'll never truly know, but only beating him by 7... there's a good chance the drugs kept him in the lineup everyday in order to account for 7, so I get it. 

HOFer regardless though. There were weeks that went by when Bonds saw 2-3 "hittable" pitches, and he didn't miss them. Steroids don't do that. 

I believe the following things are all true:

* Barry Bonds used steroids.
* Those steroids undoubtedly helped him break the home run record.
* Barry Bonds is the greatest offensive player of all-time, with or without steroids.
* Barry Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame.

2 hours ago, TheDeuce said:

MLB and the people that vote on the HOF are a joke. 

And I believe this also.  I love baseball as a game, but this kind of stuff and the stupid unwritten rules are...well, stupid.

What Bonds, Clemens, et al did is significantly worse than what Pete Rose did.

I am fine with Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, A Rod, Ramirez etc not being in the HOF. Ben Johnson lost his gold medal. Lance Armstrong was stripped of his titles. This isn't a HOF problem. This is a cheater problem.

39 minutes ago, ChickenWyngz said:

HOFer regardless though. There were weeks that went by when Bonds saw 2-3 "hittable" pitches, and he didn't miss them. Steroids don't do that. 

This.

4 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

What Bonds, Clemens, et al did is significantly worse than what Pete Rose did.

I am fine with Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, A Rod, Ramirez etc not being in the HOF. Ben Johnson lost his gold medal. Lance Armstrong was stripped of his titles. This isn't a HOF problem. This is a cheater problem.

Bonds, Clemens, etc. did not break a rule during that time. Ben Johnson and Lance were able to skirt test results and did things that were documented as against the rules. 

Pete walked past a sign everyday telling him not to bet on the game and still made the phone call to make the bet. 

I don't like what they did, but I'm a firm believer in Pete being banished from the game. 

7 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

What Bonds, Clemens, et al did is significantly worse than what Pete Rose did.

I don't agree.