So I guess the question then becomes is that freedom worth the cost?

 

In my opinion yes . If the only people armed is the government then its citizens aren't truly free. A lot these countries also don't have true freedom speech. I'm talking Western countries such as England and Canada.

In my opinion yes . If the only people armed is the government then its citizens aren't truly free. A lot these countries also don't have true freedom speech. I'm talking Western countries such as England and Canada.

 

Despite our country’s citizens being armed, does it really mean we are free, and safe from government tyranny? Could us as citizens really win a fight or defend ourselves against the government? I’m not even sure it would be a fight we could come close to winning, or even surviving long term even if we are all heavily armed.

Despite our country’s citizens being armed, does it really mean we are free, and safe from government tyranny? Could us as citizens really win a fight or defend ourselves against the government? I’m not even sure it would be a fight we could come close to winning, or even surviving long term even if we are all heavily armed.

 

Like chances better armed than unarmed.

Despite our country’s citizens being armed, does it really mean we are free, and safe from government tyranny? Could us as citizens really win a fight or defend ourselves against the government? I’m not even sure it would be a fight we could come close to winning, or even surviving long term even if we are all heavily armed.

 

The answer is an astounding no. It's just another ridiculous non-argument in the "don't take my guns" crowd.

Im not sure other cultures have the amount of violence in their music or media as we do. There have been studies linking behavior with violent music. Not as much with video games.

 

Here is one such study, although it deals with music videos.

http://library.wcsu.edu/dspace/bitstream/0/35/1/tropeano.pdf

What makes you feel that British, Australian and Japanese (just examples) media, music and video game culture would be so different?

What makes you feel that British, Australian and Japanese (just examples) media, music and video game culture would be so different?

 

I would say there is not near the volume of music in those countries that speak to killing, raping, and committing other violent crimes as okay or even glorifying those actions. I am sure its there, but not to the extent it is in the US.

 

Let me clarify my opinion by the way. I do not think media/music is THE reason for violence, but I do believe it is a contributing factor in why our culture has changed since the 1950s.

 

Example: A low income kid who has no real family to guide him, lives in a lower income area. With nobody taking the time to pour into his life, he gets his advice from those he looks up to...in this case, a certain artist who continue produces music about violent crimes. If no other solution is given to that kid, that is what he will be, because that is the culture he comes to know. Now there are so many other factors in this scenario, but the music can contribute to the behavior.

How violent is the U.S. compared to other countries when you exclude guns?

 

If you take gang violence out of gun statistics how does the U.S. gun homicide rate look?

I would say there is not near the volume of music in those countries that speak to killing, raping, and committing other violent crimes as okay or even glorifying those actions. I am sure its there, but not to the extent it is in the US.

 

Let me clarify my opinion by the way. I do not think media/music is THE reason for violence, but I do believe it is a contributing factor in why our culture has changed since the 1950s.

 

Example: A low income kid who has no real family to guide him, lives in a lower income area. With nobody taking the time to pour into his life, he gets his advice from those he looks up to...in this case, a certain artist who continue produces music about violent crimes. If no other solution is given to that kid, that is what he will be, because that is the culture he comes to know. Now there are so many other factors in this scenario, but the music can contribute to the behavior.

 

Interesting point of view and I can see how this comes into play in a lot of lower income/broken family type situations. But it does not explain the school shootings. These kids haven't seemed to be under privileged.

Yes, our culture changed due to the cultural revolution of the 1960's. In the wake of that, some good things have occurred. Many not so good things have occurred. Media reflects the cultural change and is a result of those changes. It even reinforces those changes. The breakdown of family is one factor that contributes to many social ills today.

 

I can agree with you on that.

 

I do know however that the breakdown of the American Family has come and gone at different times in history. My Grandparents were married in the 30's. He was unfaithful more than a few times I am certain in his many travels away from home. But my grandmother looked away from those things cause she chose to. She'd call him on it on occasion and when he retired he did become an entirely different man.

 

But the American Family has never been perfect even when divorce rates were lower.

I would say there is not near the volume of music in those countries that speak to killing, raping, and committing other violent crimes as okay or even glorifying those actions. I am sure its there, but not to the extent it is in the US.

 

Let me clarify my opinion by the way. I do not think media/music is THE reason for violence, but I do believe it is a contributing factor in why our culture has changed since the 1950s.

 

Example: A low income kid who has no real family to guide him, lives in a lower income area. With nobody taking the time to pour into his life, he gets his advice from those he looks up to...in this case, a certain artist who continue produces music about violent crimes. If no other solution is given to that kid, that is what he will be, because that is the culture he comes to know. Now there are so many other factors in this scenario, but the music can contribute to the behavior.

 

I think there is some influence.

 

But let me play devil's advocate. We'd all agree that most of the Theocratic Muslim Countries don't have such things in their music and entertainment. Yet they also practice some pretty violent and barbaric and ancient rituals on infidels and women. But there is no media influence causing their thinking. There is religious fundamentalism of their views but not media.

 

Also, I read where the death rate from guns is about the same now as it was in the 50's. So has there been a drastic change or perception of change? Or is it a change in different venues.

 

I would say our society is less violent than the 50's and 60's based on the violence we saw in the South or in the streets of those decades. But we feel that we live in a more violent time than those decades. At least we haven't successfully killed off the leadership of political opposition like we did with Medgar Evers (63), JFK (63), Malcolm X (65), MLK (68), RFK (68).

 

There was violence then and now. The difference is it is more in our faces now and I would probably grant that it seems more of our youth are involved in mayhem killing.

Like chances better armed than unarmed.

 

I would agree with that short term. However much of the Iron Curtain fell without an internal Civil War in Germany, Poland and Czeckoslovakia. Even the USSR changed without a Civil War. It takes a lot of time to take the other path for change but it's not unheard of.

Like chances better armed than unarmed.

 

I guess it would get you maybe an extra couple days or so. But me, you and a few hundred of our friends aren’t going to hold our govt off very long even with a couple of truckloads of guns.

I guess it would get you maybe an extra couple days or so. But me, you and a few hundred of our friends aren’t going to hold our govt off very long even with a couple of truckloads of guns.

 

Also assumes most cops and soldiers would go along. There is a strong overlap with LE and soldiers and 2nd Ammendment supporters.

 

To Hatz post I agree armed citizenship historically isn't the only way tyrannical governments fall but it normally is a lot quicker than waiting on economic collapse.

I think there is some influence.

 

But let me play devil's advocate. We'd all agree that most of the Theocratic Muslim Countries don't have such things in their music and entertainment. Yet they also practice some pretty violent and barbaric and ancient rituals on infidels and women. But there is no media influence causing their thinking. There is religious fundamentalism of their views but not media.

 

Also, I read where the death rate from guns is about the same now as it was in the 50's. So has there been a drastic change or perception of change? Or is it a change in different venues.

 

I would say our society is less violent than the 50's and 60's based on the violence we saw in the South or in the streets of those decades. But we feel that we live in a more violent time than those decades. At least we haven't successfully killed off the leadership of political opposition like we did with Medgar Evers (63), JFK (63), Malcolm X (65), MLK (68), RFK (68).

 

There was violence then and now. The difference is it is more in our faces now and I would probably grant that it seems more of our youth are involved in mayhem killing.

 

I tend to agree that I don't buy into Entertainment being a major factor. Sure there are exceptions but I think most people aren't that easily influenced. I could see the argument that some forms of entertainment glorifies things we as a society probably shouldn't want to glorify. But I don't see any direction relation to behavior.

 

Even if it did I value the first ammendment as much as I value the 2nd and wouldn't want any restrictions because of bad apples.

I would say there is not near the volume of music in those countries that speak to killing, raping, and committing other violent crimes as okay or even glorifying those actions. I am sure its there, but not to the extent it is in the US.

 

Let me clarify my opinion by the way. I do not think media/music is THE reason for violence, but I do believe it is a contributing factor in why our culture has changed since the 1950s.

 

Example: A low income kid who has no real family to guide him, lives in a lower income area. With nobody taking the time to pour into his life, he gets his advice from those he looks up to...in this case, a certain artist who continue produces music about violent crimes. If no other solution is given to that kid, that is what he will be, because that is the culture he comes to know. Now there are so many other factors in this scenario, but the music can contribute to the behavior.

I'm doing a bad job of asking the question. What has led to you forming the opinion that those countries have less violence in their media, music, videos and movies?