Guilty until proved innocent, or Innocent until proven guilty?

[ggclfan]

Would you believe a conspiracy theory to remove people from office or stop them from being elected into office?

 

This is what bugs me about the Moore mess right now. I think the guy PROBABLY is guilty of some of the stuff being charged and am frankly not a fan. However, to come out 40 years after the fact right before the election? This sure feels like a political hit job. It can be both - mostly true and a political hit job.

 

This could be a big issue down the road. In the climate we are in right now, any famous person could be a target of sexual harassment charges...especially when the accuser says it happened 20-30 years ago. How do you defend yourself? And in a political race, you have almost no time to defend yourself.

[ggclfan]

The money saved on court fees pales in comparison to the potential future earnings lost if they choose not to use the courts to clear their name.

 

I, especially in these scenarios, perceive a settlement as an admission of guilt and an attempt to make it go away, and were I one of the accusers, there wouldn't be a dollar amount large enough to could shut me up.

 

I think your answers sound good from the outside but are often not practical. If you are a high profile person and someone says they are going to go public with a sexual harassment accusation, it is often better to settle so the allegation does not go public. I am not saying that is necessarily the right way to go but I can understand why the high profile person does not want to put his family and employer through the pain of it going public because NO MATTER WHAT, many people will believe the accuser - no matter what the court verdict.

 

Conversely, I cannot fault any woman (or man for that matter) for taking a large settlement in lieu of going through a very public lawsuit. While you may win a lot of money in a lawsuit, you may lose and NO MATTER WHAT, even if you win, some will believe the accused. Especially if you don't have a lot of money, taking a settlement and moving on with your life is something I cannot blame anyone for doing.

[rockmom]

That's 1 person making claims. That happens all the time. That is not the same situation that you started this thread about. Not apples to apples.

 

Not to mention, her story was wack to begin with.

[rockmom]

This is what bugs me about the Moore mess right now. I think the guy PROBABLY is guilty of some of the stuff being charged and am frankly not a fan. However, to come out 40 years after the fact right before the election? This sure feels like a political hit job. It can be both - mostly true and a political hit job.

 

This could be a big issue down the road. In the climate we are in right now, any famous person could be a target of sexual harassment charges...especially when the accuser says it happened 20-30 years ago. How do you defend yourself? And in a political race, you have almost no time to defend yourself.

 

In the case of at least 2 of these women, they were teenagers, it was the 70's. As difficult as it is.now for women to try and bring forth such action, it was tens of times worse. Not to mention, from what the one victim I saw tell her story, he used his power and position to make it clear to her that no one would believe her over him. That's what predators do. They use their power to silence those they abuse.

[theguru]

Your first paragraph is exactly why so many sexual assaults and sexual harrassment cases go unreported. Society DOESN'T tend to believe the victim. The victim has a motive. The victim brought it on themselves.

 

I agree with your last paragraph. Those people don't only do harm to the falsely accused, they make it harder for real victims to get believed.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that all the false accusations make it tougher on real victims.

 

What a shame...

[sportsfan41]

Kind of off topic, but I think what's being overlooked is how messed up Hollywood is. All of these famous actors that the media tells us are full of wisdom and compassion when discussing certain topics, it's certainly comical at this point.

[ggclfan]

In the case of at least 2 of these women, they were teenagers, it was the 70's. As difficult as it is.now for women to try and bring forth such action, it was tens of times worse. Not to mention, from what the one victim I saw tell her story, he used his power and position to make it clear to her that no one would believe her over him. That's what predators do. They use their power to silence those they abuse.

 

I don't disagree with anything you just said Mom. It is what makes these "he said-she said" things so difficult. The person not telling the truth in these situations is the scum of the earth. I will say in the vast majority of cases, the accuser is telling the truth but not always. I would 99% believe the women in the Moore case if it were not for the timing. I still feel most of them are telling the truth (the Allred woman seems to be losing some credibility in her story) but the timing is just very suspicious to me.

[rockmom]

I don't disagree with anything you just said Mom. It is what makes these "he said-she said" things so difficult. The person not telling the truth in these situations is the scum of the earth. I will say in the vast majority of cases, the accuser is telling the truth but not always. I would 99% believe the women in the Moore case if it were not for the timing. I still feel most of them are telling the truth (the Allred woman seems to be losing some credibility in her story) but the timing is just very suspicious to me.

 

And on the flip side, I feel even more confident they are telling the truth because Mitch McConnell has heard them and believes them. Now...you think about that...I am agreeing with Mitch McConnell...there must be something to that. :F

[rockmom]

Kind of off topic, but I think what's being overlooked is how messed up Hollywood is. All of these famous actors that the media tells us are full of wisdom and compassion when discussing certain topics, it's certainly comical at this point.

 

Can you expound? I thought I understood what you were saying...but then I reread it and I'm not sure I do.

[sportsfan41]

Can you expound? I thought I understood what you were saying...but then I reread it and I'm not sure I do.

 

Hollywood isn't special, it's probably the opposite. The fact that for years the media has painted Hollywood's elites as something the masses should aspire to be like is laughable. Their opinion on race, religion, politics etc, is not and should not be taken as the gospel, as it is for far too many folks. Hope the clarifies.

[rockmom]

Hollywood isn't special, it's probably the opposite. The fact that for years the media has painted Hollywood's elites as something the masses should aspire to be like is laughable. Their opinion on race, religion, politics etc, is not and should not be taken as the gospel, as it is for far too many folks. Hope the clarifies.

 

Ok. I've never gotten that impression from the media, but to each their own.

[True blue (and gold)]

Ok. I've never gotten that impression from the media, but to each their own.

Me, either.

[True blue (and gold)]

I don't disagree with anything you just said Mom. It is what makes these "he said-she said" things so difficult. The person not telling the truth in these situations is the scum of the earth. I will say in the vast majority of cases, the accuser is telling the truth but not always. I would 99% believe the women in the Moore case if it were not for the timing. I still feel most of them are telling the truth (the Allred woman seems to be losing some credibility in her story) but the timing is just very suspicious to me.

There is never a good time to reveal sexual assault. Can you imagine living with the knowledge for years, mostly getting to put it to the back of your mind, and then to find him plastered on your TV screen as an up and coming politician? You might just find that you can't stay quiet anymore.

 

On a a related note, I have had more conversations in the last couple of weeks with women who have just recently admitted being sexually assaulted than I have in my whole life. If you know ten women, I bet five of them have been sexually assaulted. Some can't talk about it. For many, it has taken a long, long time. Many are guilt-ridden and blame themselves. Some were children when it happened, or teens. As much as I'd like to say "they should have told as such and such time," there just really isn't a magic elixir moment for most women. They tell when and if they can. What they can be sure of is that far too many people will not believe them.

[Jesse James]

Hollywood isn't special, it's probably the opposite. The fact that for years the media has painted Hollywood's elites as something the masses should aspire to be like is laughable. Their opinion on race, religion, politics etc, is not and should not be taken as the gospel, as it is for far too many folks. Hope the clarifies.

 

Ok. I've never gotten that impression from the media, but to each their own.

 

Me, either.

 

The media is biased. Its no longer news, its agendas. Thats been proven, all you have to do is watch and this includes both sides. I think most sane people discount most of what they say unless they are reporting a hard story( something that has just happened). After that they have to dissect the info and have this analyst or that analyst to give their professional opinion of the subject is where this does not become news, its becomes slanted and not real news.

 

While I do not know if Roy Moore is guilty( and if he is he needs to get out of the race) but I do know that this smells of a hit job( and I agree with one of the above posters that it could be both). I also agree with @theguru that as soon as anyone is accused of anything they are automatically guilty. We live in a society where everyone is very quick to point out wrongs when they dont know the whole truth and facts. This is/has become a very bad trait of a nation.

 

Its now trial by media.

[True blue (and gold)]

The media is biased. Its no longer news, its agendas. Thats been proven, all you have to do is watch and this includes both sides. I think most sane people discount most of what they say unless they are reporting a hard story( something that has just happened). After that they have to dissect the info and have this analyst or that analyst to give their professional opinion of the subject is where this does not become news, its becomes slanted and not real news.

 

While I do not know if Roy Moore is guilty( and if he is he needs to get out of the race) but I do know that this smells of a hit job( and I agree with one of the above posters that it could be both). I also agree with @theguru that as soon as anyone is accused of anything they are automatically guilty. We live in a society where everyone is very quick to point out wrongs when they dont know the whole truth and facts. This is/has become a very bad trait of a nation.

 

Its now trial by media.

Things look very different to someone that has been sexually assaulted. See post #43.