If some of you are going to pretend this amount of negative conversation didn't happen towards Obama, there is literally zero reason to continue the discussion.

 

The fact that you could even type those words is baffling to me.

 

It absolutely occurred. Just like it did with President Bush before him, and President Clinton before him, etc, etc, etc.

 

To say otherwise is disingenuous IMO.

 

One think that I think has ratcheted up in the past 3-4 years (at least that I've seen) is the genuine hatred and disgust that a lot of people have for those who have opposite political beliefs.

 

That's the one thing that really disappoints me, and I just don't understand it.

Edited July 12, 20179 yr by UKMustangFan

I will also take the path of one of the others above ... and say could change my mind with the current President:

1. Immediately apologize to all Americans for intentionally trying to tear this country apart.

2. Apologize to women for the rude, sexist, vulgar, etc comments and behavior that he has shown through his life.

3. Apologize for the racist, exclusionary comments that he has made towards minorities and basically all Americans (see #1)

4. Finally realize that he beat Hillary--so quit giving that crap more airtime. Have some class and quit being a sore winner .... you won ... next play.

5. Quit intentionally trying to cover up your relationship with Russia. We know you love Putin ... acknowledge that you owe a ton of money to Russia ... and you are going to work with them.

6. Immediately divest yourself from running your business while you are President.

7. Quit using your properties for government meetings, functions, etc unless they are the cheapest option.

8. Quit pointing out others flaws to hide your own.

9. Apologize for the pathetic comments that you made to get you elected ... we get it ... everyone says nasty things ... but you could turn the tide by focusing on being a little better.

10. Quit taking constant vacations (especially since you have went out of your way to complain about the previous Presidents ... when you are already on path to destroy their total number of vacations).

11. Quit watching Fox News, Morning Joe, etc every morning to see what people are saying about you. If I started every morning out at my job watching TV ... I probably wouldnt have a job. You have a ton of work to do ... freaking do it.

12. Quit marketing yourself as a financial genius. You are not--your businesses have filed Chapter 13 more times than I have posted this morning ... that isn't success. It is failure. Accept it and move on.

 

Part 2 shortly .... I want to make sure that I give everyone a chance to say how wrong the left is!

You said the Left didn't blame everything on President Bush. That is factually incorrect.

 

If we did ... we.were.wrong!

Very wrong ... I am embarrassed to say that I didn't realize it when it was happening.

This thread clearly illustrates our deep political divide. We have a President who said during his campaign that he could shoot someone in the street and not lose a vote.

 

I believe it.

 

And don't forget how he can do whatever he wants with women...just grab 'em by the _____!

I'm somewhat stunned people who were active on this forum over the last nine years (not directed at MJ, but seems a common sentiment) can assert criticism of Obama was impersonal, high-minded policy wonkery and only now we've devolved into personal and outlandish attacks on the president. Obama couldn't sneeze without being called a secret Kenyan, Muslim, Marxist, anti-American, anti-colonialist, anti-Christ (yes, really), terrorsist sympathizing, effete European, community organizing, dumb as a rock, arrogant, racist who continually disrespected the office with his Dijon mustard, golf playing, rap music, tan suits, and insufficiently attractive wife.

 

This is the edit version. But it's definitely less hateful than POTUS Trump gets. :lol2:

 

Great post as usual @Habib.

I'll take the opposite approach since I have a very strong dislike for our current POTUS....

 

I'll also preface this with the thought that I support the office of the President, regardless of who is in it. I want him to succeed and do well, so the POTUS will always have my support.

 

I could find myself approving of his time as POTUS if he would:

 

- Stay off the Twitter. Like 3 weeks ago.

 

- Stop focusing so much on whether people like you and focus on getting things accomplished for the country. The petty quarrels and tit for tat are tiresome.

 

- Pass some sort of tax reform.

 

- Treat people with respect.

 

I do like his SCOTUS appointment of Justice Gorsuch quite a bit.

 

This!!! A Million Times . . . THIS!!!

You seem to have no problem with the Ukrainian collusion with the Clinton campaign... Had HRC won the election would support her impeachment for her collusion ??

 

I haven't said one freaking word about Impeachment (I am not at the point where I am there with the current President).

 

However ... If Hillary or any other President intentionally sought help from outside the laws and rules of this country to win an election ... jail wouldn't be good enough for me. If anyone involved another country ... guess what ... that is a ton worse in my eyes.

 

And as I have said on 3 different occasions ... in my opinion .. the issue with Trump and Russia isn't really about the election for me (even though it should be) .. this investigation goes back to something else ... the election is the starting point and when it is done ... it will only be the reason why the investigation started.

This thread has evolved into what it would take for some of us to respect the President.

 

Telling :lol2:

 

I am an American just like the rest of you .... I fought, my family, friends and millions of others for the ability to express my opinion ... yet republicans seems to think that they are the only ones who have a valued opinion.

 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you posted in post #84. However, I wanted to pull this out.

 

This is exactly how many conservatives felt throughout the whole Presidential election, continue to feel, and why I think Trump won (at least played a big part). This is why the polls were so off because Republicans just sat back instead of be ridiculed by those that disagreed. At least on social media, if you have an opinion that is conservative, you are often attacked by the Social Justice Warriors for being a bigot, racist, homophobic, and etc.

 

I thoroughly enjoy reading through discussion and debate because, its how we (more specifically I) learn. But I wouldn't make the statement I quoted during these times. Far to few on "the left" allow for a conservative opinion on many topics. At the least both conservatives and liberals are guilty of it.

You know what I find sad ... is that you are apparently not a Democrat ... so don't pretend to know what we think. MOST of us weren't real thrilled with Hillary .. BUT we very much felt better about her than someone who appeared in Wrestlemania (and yes .. I know some of you on the right think that makes him more "normal" ... sorry ... he wouldn't pee on your back if you were on fire).

 

The whole thought that Democrats can't get over that Hillary lost .... funny ... I haven't heard any of my Democrat friends say anything about Hillary losing except for when republicans say this self serving crap.

 

I WILL NEVER BLINDLY FOLLOW ANYONE. This is America ... and it was created with that thought in mind. Just because you are willing to bow down to a person who embarrasses our country on a daily basis ... doesn't mean that I have to.

 

A few other things that most Democrats can and will do on a daily basis:

*Support our military even though our President makes our stomach turn

*Support law enforcement even though our President makes our stomach turn

*Help others who are less fortunate -- even though our President and the Right thinks we should throw them away

*Support the fight against illegal immigration --- even though it is constantly discussed in a manner to where we don't

*NOT SUPPORT TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH DISGUISED AS A HEALTHCARE PLAN.

 

None of that has ANYTHING TO DO WITH HILLARY CLINTON. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BEING AN AMERICAN WHO CARES DEEPLY ABOUT THIS COUNTRY.

 

LIES!

You said the Left didn't blame everything on President Bush. That is factually incorrect.

 

In reality the minute Obama took office the Right tried to forgot from whom he had inherited it, trying to place the blame on him with hopes to ignore on whose clock it originally became a mess.

 

When he hadn't immediately cleaned up the mess the Right from the get-go used it as a way to say how awful he was, and the Left, in disbelief of the Right's blatant short memories, came back with reminders that the Right was just never going to accept or admit.

 

You could hardly blame the Left for being so dumbfounded that the Right was seriously going to try to shamelessly rewrite history right out in broad daylight, but no matter how much that the Left pushed back to say how insufferably unfair the claims were, the Right continued to march on with their invented narrative of bull headed rubbish.

 

So yes the Left rightfully placed blame on Bush, and only so in response to the Right trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes with a slight-of-hand rewriting of history that the Left just wasn't going to stand for.

 

In my mind that demonstration of the Right's lying nonsense was what really catapulted and started to really magnify the deep divide that we are now experiencing in this country because they discovered in their minds that truth, fairness, and credibility were no longer highly regarded attributes to have within their win-at-all-cost mentality, even if you have to lie, cheat, and steal.

 

For 8 years the Right continued with this type of combative incommunicado severely damaging the political landscape that once historically had Americans from both sides at least in general accepting whoever the POTUS was with hopes that whether or not he represented your party or not he was at least qualified to handle the position with integrity, while giving rise to an unqualified classless abrasive Donald Trump who loudly emulated this type of insufferable combative rhetoric making the Right feel validated for having developed such a harshly hate filled unfair approach that does nothing to even begin to try to unify this country.

 

Though it was met with resistance and setbacks, during the Obama years this country at least had a leader with a peaceful spirit aiming to have our society gain ground in a more fair, all inclusive, diverse, open minded way, but the largely white Right, who's never been too keen on the idea of sharing this land with real open minded fairness, felt themselves losing grip on their once almighty stranglehold where the slogan "Make America Great Again" translated to them as "Make America White Again", while the other half of this country had felt that we had come too far to just have to go back to what we've been trying to distance ourselves from for many many years.

 

Donald Trump's arrival is an all too real symbolism that what our society has strived to become has been given the green light to take multiple disturbing steps backward, and the large outcry you hear from those you might refer to as cry baby snowflakes sore losers, are the vast millions of the other half of this country who very much sincerely have grave concerns that boy-oh-boy our country has really screwed up this time in a way never before seen, and it's tremendously hard to swallow that just as there are many who aim to continue to advance as a society, there are just as many who would rather not, or at least have a very different definition about just what advancing means.

 

When people say that the Right has never reacted like this as the Left has, that's because no matter what bull crap narratives they continued to spin regarding Obama, though not perfect, he was not the abrasive, divisional, controversial, unqualified, classless loose cannon nut job that our present POTUS is, so there's just no way to equally and fairly compare the reactions.

 

It's mind boggling and disturbing to many that so many others can be so relentlessly brazenly callous and blind, and though the Right seems to be dumbfounded as to why anyone would so vehemently resist, there are those who are just not going to sit idly by and say "Oh well the house is on fire, just let it burn".

 

Granted that neither party truly ultimately offered us with any solidly good candidate, and In no way have I ever tried to pass Hillary off as the answer, the endless illogical response that at least Trump is no Hillary just doesn't hold water when our country deserved the best that we could have. I get it when folks wanted something different rather than the typical career politician, but seriously Trump was the answer, and seemingly to many our hero and savior?

 

Please folks, seriously?

Edited July 12, 20179 yr by B-Ball-fan

This thread clearly illustrates our deep political divide. We have a President who said during his campaign that he could shoot someone in the street and not lose a vote.

 

I believe it.

 

No doubt about it.

If "taking shots" is the same thing as republicans have done with our last President ... then I am fine with that.

 

I have clearly detailed numerous items that are real facts ... but again ... in the mind of the average republican ... those things don't matter.

 

I think if you spend about 3 minutes reading what I have written ... you will realize that, what you call "shots", are what Democrats call real issues.

 

But hey ... when I woke up yesterday, today ... I didn't expect anyone from the right to actually stop and read anything that comes from someone from the left. More "fake news" ... shots, etc. (Which is funny ... by the republicans definition ... it makes me a lot like their President ... you think I would be celebrated for "Speaking My Mind"!!!!)

 

Didn't dems have 12 years to fix those "issues"?

In reality the minute Obama took office the Right tried to forgot from whom he had inherited it, trying to place the blame on him with hopes to ignore on whose clock it originally became a mess.

 

When he hadn't immediately cleaned up the mess the Right from the get-go used it as a way to say how awful he was, and the Left, in disbelief of the Right's blatant short memories, came back with reminders that the Right was just never going to accept or admit.

 

You could hardly blame the Left for being so dumbfounded that the Right was seriously going to try to shamelessly rewrite history right out in broad daylight, but no matter how much that the Left pushed back to say how insufferably unfair the claims were, the Right continued to march on with their invented narrative of bull headed rubbish.

 

So yes the Left rightfully placed blame on Bush, and only so in response to the Right trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes with a slight-of-hand rewriting of history that the Left just wasn't going to stand for.

 

In my mind that demonstration of the Right's lying nonsense was what really catapulted and started to really magnify the deep divide that we are now experiencing in this country because they discovered in their minds that truth, fairness, and credibility were no longer highly regarded attributes to have within their win-at-all-cost mentality, even if you have to lie, cheat, and steal.

 

For 8 years the Right continued with this type of combative incommunicado severely damaging the political landscape that once historically had Americans from both sides at least in general accepting whoever the POTUS was with hopes that whether or not he represented your party or not he was at least qualified to handle the position with integrity, while giving rise to an unqualified classless abrasive Donald Trump who loudly emulated this type of insufferable combative rhetoric making the Right feel validated for having developed such a harshly hate filled unfair approach that does nothing to even begin to try to unify this country.

 

Though it was met with resistance and setbacks, during the Obama years this country at least had a leader with a peaceful spirit aiming to have our society gain ground in a more fair, all inclusive, diverse, open minded way, but the largely white Right, who's never been too keen on the idea of sharing this land with real open minded fairness, felt themselves losing grip on their once almighty stranglehold where the slogan "Make America Great Again" translated to them as "Make America White Again", while the other half of this country had felt that we had come too far to just have to go back to what we've been trying to distance ourselves from for many many years.

 

Donald Trump's arrival is an all too real symbolism that what our society has strived to become has been given the green light to take multiple disturbing steps backward, and the large outcry you hear from those you might refer to as cry baby snowflakes sore losers, are the vast millions of the other half of this country who very much sincerely have grave concerns that boy-oh-boy our country has really screwed up this time in a way never before seen, and it's tremendously hard to swallow that just as there are many who aim to continue to advance as a society, there are just as many who would rather not, or at least have a very different definition about just what advancing means.

 

When people say that the Right has never reacted like this as the Left has, that's because no matter what bull crap narratives they continued to spin regarding Obama, though not perfect, he was not the abrasive, divisional, controversial, unqualified, classless loose cannon nut job that our present POTUS is, so there's just no way to equally and fairly compare the reactions.

 

It's mind boggling and disturbing to many that so many others can be so relentlessly brazenly callous and blind, and though the Right seems to be dumbfounded as to why anyone would so vehemently resist, there are those who are just not going to sit idly by and say "Oh well the house is on fire, just let it burn".

 

Granted that neither party truly ultimately offered us with any solidly good candidate, and In no way have I ever tried to pass Hillary off as the answer, the endless illogical response that at least Trump is no Hillary just doesn't hold water when our country deserved the best that we could have. I get it when folks wanted something different rather than the typical career politician, but seriously Trump was the answer, and seemingly to many our hero and savior?

 

Please folks, seriously?

 

It took writing that much to admit the Left did exactly what I said and defend it. Lol

It took writing that much to admit the Left did exactly what I said and defend it. Lol

 

I guess that you missed the part where I said that it was a response to the Right and their blatant bull crap lies and short memories, and trying to slight-of-hand rewrite history in broad daylight.

 

That sorta was an important point.

 

The Left would not have had to step forward with these reminders if the Right hadn't tried to pull a fast one with their deceitful spinning of reality.

 

And just like a good steward of the Right's spin game, right on cue you tried to do it here with a misrepresentation of the point that I was making.

 

If you must play that game, has it ever occurred to you that you spend more time trying to sweep reality under the rug than you do to add credible truth to the dialogue?