You bring up an interesting point, how bout we start enforcing the gun laws that are already in place?

Are you not willing to see why there was a time in this country when people were able to own guns and not kill their fellow Americans? Why not just look at the past and see if we can determine why this country has degenerated into a place of with increasing rates of violence and murder? MAybe we will learn what has happened to people to make them willing to kill and then if we can identify causes and contributing factors maybe we will have a chance to reverse that trend. You wanted to look at other countries for examples. Why not look at our own history for examples of how to reduce gun violence?

 

When you begin to erode individual rights you are making the path to tyranny more broad.

 

You really cannot see that guns do not kill?! Deranged people do and twisted people do. That won't change with legislation. It is insane to reduce the rights of honest citizens and think that by doing so you will stop the law-breaker or the nut.

 

BTW, the history of England and the United States provide examples of how culture changed from unjust and destructive patterns of behavior to a more positive society on the whole.

 

Was there a time that Americans didn't kill other Americans at these rates?

I don't know. We're there this many guns in circulation?

Are you not willing to see why there was a time in this country when people were able to own guns and not kill their fellow Americans? Why not just look at the past and see if we can determine why this country has degenerated into a place of with increasing rates of violence and murder? MAybe we will learn what has happened to people to make them willing to kill and then if we can identify causes and contributing factors maybe we will have a chance to reverse that trend. You wanted to look at other countries for examples. Why not look at our own history for examples of how to reduce gun violence?

 

When you begin to erode individual rights you are making the path to tyranny more broad.

 

You really cannot see that guns do not kill?! Deranged people do and twisted people do. That won't change with legislation. It is insane to reduce the rights of honest citizens and think that by doing so you will stop the law-breaker or the nut.

 

BTW, the history of England and the United States provide examples of how culture changed from unjust and destructive patterns of behavior to a more positive society on the whole.

I'm with you on the demise of what used to be a culture of respect in America. Unfortunately, Mayberry now has a meth problem and a bunch of hoodlums now live in Beaver Cleaver's old house. The '50s ain't coming back anytime soon.

 

Time to get some of these weapons out of circulation.

@Hellcats, Democrats have been good for the gun business over the last decade and more, but I do believe there was a time when there was a higher percentage of people owning guns. It probably has to do with rural vs urban and in the past the US had more people living in rural settings than now.

 

Crime and drugs are driving the murder-by-gun rate and I think both of those are higher now than in our past. We tend to focus on mass shootings but Americans are more likely to be gunned down in drug and crime situations than by a nut or terrorist who shoots up a crowd.

I agree totally. And until this, I had no idea that our state checked my background every 30 days. I think that's taking the lead in responsible ownership for our state to do that. Do you agree?

 

Yes. Again, my point in posting the link was to illustrate that as Kentuckians, we are ahead of the curve. Wouldn't it be nice, though, if what Kentucky does was what all states do?

 

And again, I think one of the frustrations of discussing this with Kentuckians is that many (if not most) feel that what Kentucky does is what all states do, therefore they see no need for reforms.

I'm with you on the demise of what used to be a culture of respect in America. Unfortunately, Mayberry now has a meth problem and a bunch of hoodlums now live in Beaver Cleaver's old house. The '50s ain't coming back anytime soon.

 

Time to get some of these weapons out of circulation.

 

Fair enough, Twotoplace. Times have changed. The 60's swept Mayberry out the door. While we may not regain a Mayberry culture, I think things can change. There have been times of monumental change in our country and in England in the past. No reason it can't happen again. Families and children have been victims too long. Let's get back to what works best for them!

 

BTW, firearms have not been the cause of our cultural demise.

Your statement leaves out the fact that those guys had to serve in the military and were trained. There actually have been some changes to that after some incidents of suicide with those rifles.

 

Do we have more mental health and crime here than the rest of the world?

It would seem that we do.

Japan vis-a-vis U.S. admittedly is the starkest contrast. Scores of other countries do it better than we do, and they're not as strict as Japan.

 

12,000-plus vs. 2.

 

Makes one think about the cost of freedom and the price of safety, doesn't it?

 

How about expelling all Muslims and non citizens and allow NO more immigration? That too would make us safer. What is the cost of freedom and the price of safety?

How about expelling all Muslims and non citizens and allow NO more immigration? That too would make us safer. What is the cost of freedom and the price of safety?

 

I have to disagree. I don't fear immigrants any more, and really, not as much, as I do Americans. The day to day violent crime, even non-violent crime, is overwhelmingly committed by good old home grown Americans.

I have to disagree. I don't fear immigrants any more, and really, not as much, as I do Americans. The day to day violent crime, even non-violent crime, is overwhelmingly committed by good old home grown Americans.

 

No doubt. However I said safer, not safe. No doubt those moves would make us safer as would the same moves against any significant populations. I just want to see How many rights TTP is willing to rip from people to make us safer.

How about expelling all Muslims and non citizens and allow NO more immigration? That too would make us safer. What is the cost of freedom and the price of safety?

 

So we expel Muslims who are American citizens and have done nothing wrong?

So we expel Muslims who are American citizens and have done nothing wrong?

 

Sure, why not? Rights no longer matter under the scenarios being thrown out.

@Hellcats, Democrats have been good for the gun business over the last decade and more, but I do believe there was a time when there was a higher percentage of people owning guns. It probably has to do with rural vs urban and in the past the US had more people living in rural settings than now.

 

Crime and drugs are driving the murder-by-gun rate and I think both of those are higher now than in our past. We tend to focus on mass shootings but Americans are more likely to be gunned down in drug and crime situations than by a nut or terrorist who shoots up a crowd.

 

How have democrats been good for gun business? Seems to me the left has tried to push for reform.

 

Jumper Dad posted an article on here a couple of months ago that said homicides are actually down from 20 years ago.

 

IMO it is harder to start a moral revolution than it would be to place more limitations on firearms.

This response isn't surprising. Just a few days ago you struggled mightily to properly quote an article on multiple occasions. I wouldn't expect you to respond to points in a post without insults...

 

So no actual comment on substance. In most your posts in here you keep comparing Muslims to Christians.

 

My point in both threads yes there are crazy people in every religion. But one specific religion has a much larger number who use violence.

 

Why would it be xenophobic to point out a fact ?

In all for paying a small fee to do a check for a private sale. Myself and the other person should be required to go to an authorized dealer or whatever and have them assist in the transaction. I am not against getting rid of 100% private gun sales.

 

But that is only one of many things that we need to do. I like the laws in Maryland, if you commit any crime with a gun you automatically get 5 years in prison with no parole.

 

This will not take away rights from law abiding gun owners.

 

I like that Maryland law as well.

 

I know you didn't say this but your talk of a fee brought up another thought. I've heard an idea on the left about taxing gu s and ammo at such a high rate or make license fee steep to price people out of buying.

 

My thought to that is why does the left only want the rich and powerful to be armed.