I'll have my weapon on my side, so probably a good idea. I'd hate for you to come around to the multiautomatic side via one of our gatherings.

 

:lol2:

I'll have my weapon on my side, so probably a good idea. I'd hate for you to come around to the multiautomatic side via one of our gatherings.

Your problem is to avoid shooting yourself in the foot -- both literally and figuratively.

Hellcat wrote this in response to some posters saying that another poster here and those who want more gun control are ignorant...

 

How are these people the problem?

 

Is their ignorance causing people to use guns on others?

 

Not at all. Any person who blames anyone or anything other than the person pulling the trigger is completely off the mark and cannot offer an effective solution.

 

No, I don't.

 

Not really a logical analogy.

 

Anyway I hate the idea we can't come up with any answers other than arming everybody or taking all guns away. That's lazy by all sides. I guess it's representative of every other argument in our country today.

 

Absolutely correct! We have lived with ubiquitous gun ownership in times past without killing one another on a daily basis. Gun ownership is not the problem. The problem is that we have become a nation that has produced a large amount of people who do not value human life, who are angry, who have no scruples against killing another human being, who have developed addictions that have trumped whatever scruples they had, and who have developed any number of other anti-social, anti-human and mailicious character traits that somehow allow them to kill another human being. That is the problem. That is why you have people killing many, many, many more people than were killed in San Bernandino on the same weekend that that happened.

 

Yet, all that we (collectively as a nation) can manage to do as a nation is argue about gun control. Our problem runs FAR deeper and we are unwilling to examine the underlying causes or address the real issues. The family has unraveled in this country and at the same time our culture has degenerated into the malicious, violent, sex-crazed culture we now see. Is there a correlation here? Is there causation here? We need to thoroughly and honestly examine what has happened to our collective conscience and our collective character. We have removed the foundations of our culture since at least the 1960's so why are we surprised at the upheaval we are experiencing?

 

This is why I get a little tired of the rhetoric regarding gun control. It is a shallow, knee-jerk reaction to a symptom of a much deeper problem. Are we too lazy, too ignorant, or too degenerate to actually want to consider that the issue might have to do with the soul of our country, and more to the point, with the souls of individuals?

 

The point you are missing is that you want to ban a legal gun because someone did something illegal to it and with it.

 

I can buy a diesel and fertilizer legally, but if I blow up a building with them I used them illegally. Does Diesel and Fertilizer need to be outlawed? You can buy a car get in it drunk and drive through a Parade killing dozens, do cars and beer need to be banned?

 

Quit blaming the objects and blame the criminals...there is evil in this world and there will always be evil, no new warm and fuzzy law will change that.

 

Are there some things (nothing that you've proposed outside of better back ground checks) that can and should be done, sure. But even the most well thought out changes will not prevent bad people from doing bad things.

 

99.99% of Mass Shootings fall into one of three categories.

1) Criminal Activity (Think Gangs, drugs, etc)

2) Mental Illness (see How many mass shooters were on psychotropic drugs prior)

3) Ideologues (Planned Parenthood, Radical Islamist)

 

So what do we do?

 

1) We battle them with stiffer penalties for gun crimes, no plea bargain and walk deals.

2) We rewrite HIPPA to allow mental health records to be part of the background check process

3) No law we write will stop these people from carrying out attacks...whether it is a mass shooting, blowing up a church with dynamite or crashing a plane into the White House

 

This is a well thought out post. The only solution I would differ on is to your #2 regarding access to mental health records. I 100% agree that the deranged should not have guns. What I fear with your proposal is that a lot of people who are already REALLY reluctant to get help from a mental health official won't get the help they need becaue they want to stay off such a list. Their mental illness will only get worse and they may wind up becoming one of the statistics.

 

Well, I have to say...I'm skeptical of the "facts". I've found those opposed to any changes are prone to downplay the issue, and I have yet to see an answer to the question, "What does one need with an AK15 (et al)?" that I consider legitimate.

 

rockmom, with all due respect, whether you consider it legitimate or not is no concern of mine. Only in a nanny state do others think they know better what an individual needs. In a nanny state, the state becomes the really smart experts that no one else can do without. The nanny state has to acquire a lot of power to force its "better" opinion on others.

 

I find it ludicrous that you hold your right to bear arms in more regard than your fellow citizens rights to live.

 

I am not sure you actually mean this after reading several more pages of this thread where you have walked this back. It is precisely because we value human life that we believe in the right of self-defense and the right to be able to defend others against the attack of those who have less regard for human life. Do not take away the ability of the law abiding citizen to defend herself.

 

I possess firearms and my family has for generations. Not one of us has ever shot another human being. The right to bear arms by one citizen is not a threat to another citizen unless that other citizen decides to break the law and tries do harm to other citizens. Then the law-aiding citizen has the right to defend herself from the one who is breaking the law. This is a basic human right.

Your problem is to avoid shooting yourself in the foot -- both literally and figuratively.

Yeah, that's it. In the event we were in a mix up at the same place, you'd be the one hiding behind me for protection, but I digress.

Yeah, that's it. In the event we were in a mix up at the same place, you'd be the one hiding behind me for protection, but I digress.

Better cut back on the caffeine this morning, son.

Better cut back on the caffeine this morning, son.

Haven't had any.

Haven't had any.

Rough weekend then?

Well, I have to say...I'm skeptical of the "facts". I've found those opposed to any changes are prone to downplay the issue, and I have yet to see an answer to the question, "What does one need with an AK15 (et al)?" that I consider legitimate.

 

What does needing something have to do with a right ?

Edited December 7, 201510 yr by LIPTON BASH

What does needing something have to do with a right ?

Revisit post 306. By the way, the U.S. Supreme Court today declined to review semiauto high-capacity assault weapons bans enacted by communities and states.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-wont-review-laws-banning-so-called-assault-weapons/2015/12/07/b562678e-96fb-11e5-94f0-9eeaff906ef3_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_assaultweapon-950a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Rough weekend then?

Nope, just worked. Making sure I do my part to support those who don't.

One thing I didn't mention in post #348 but thought about later is that the solution to the underlying issues does not lie with the government. The government cannot fix this with legislation. The government may be able to encourage it and definitely can refrain from getting in the way, but it cannot do what needs to be done.

 

I think the necessary impetus must come from family, community leaders, and faith communities.