So without knowing the race or religion of those who set them on fire, how can we claim it was racially motivated, or even targeted because of a specific religion?

 

To take it a step farther, how can we be sure that the fire wasn't set by the pastor or some other trustee of the church. Maybe the church building was in significant need of maintenance and the congregation is strapped for cash. Maybe, someone saw an opportunity to have the needed reapirs / upgrades completed with insurance money and took advantage of the timing given the other church arsons in the news. It would make it a lot easier to get away with committing arson.

 

The point being that unitl we know who set the church on fire and why there are all kinds of possibilities as to what happened. That being said, I believe that more than likley if arson is proven at these churches (as opposed to lightning) that it was due to a racist comitting a hate crime. The fact that all the burned churches so far have been black churches doesn't support the claims that these were crimes against Christianity.

 

The point being that unitl we know who set the church on fire and why there are all kinds of possibilities as to what happened. That being said, I believe that more than likley if arson is proven at these churches (as opposed to lightning) that it was due to a racist comitting a hate crime. The fact that all the burned churches so far have been black churches doesn't support the claims that these were crimes against Christianity.

 

I agree, and my whole point was, just as it was okay to make those speculations in that thread, it's equally as okay to make speculations in here, and that doesn't make you a racist.

I agree, and my whole point was, just as it was okay to make those speculations in that thread, it's equally as okay to make speculations in here, and that doesn't make you a racist.

 

Your right. Hatred of Americans is what makes you a racist.

We don't see how anything started, so your view seems no more likely to be the case than those who think it was race related. The opinion that it was race related is no more racist than your statement that it was just a white dude in a dumb situation.

 

If we're to believe the cops version of events (and I have no reason not to), the guy was just walking in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

So I am clear, I don't know if the beating was race related or not (I was not there). What I was saying before was that the police officer initially said it was and then the PD changed its tune (reeks of political correctness to me). I AM also saying that if it was the other way around, the media would assume it was race related and it would be treated totally differently.

This may be for another thread topic but I really don't see the need for race crime legislation at all. If you beat someone up, you should be prosecuted for beating someone up. Whether the person is black, white, man, woman, gay, straight, etc., they are all people. I have never understood the need for hate crime legislation. I think you should be punished for the crime you commit, not your thought process or perceived thought process in doing so.

What are the requirements for a hate crime?

 

Clyde you are an intelligent poster here so I want to run a thought by you.

 

Am I the only one who thinks hate crime charges are pointless . If assault someone why does it matter if I did it because of your skin color or if you looked at me wrong.

 

A crime is a crime. If I murder someone , hurt someone , or steal from someone. The only thing that should matter was if it was pre-meditated and how ruthless it was.

 

Why should a criminal go to jail for a less amount of time for killing my family member because he did it because of money instead of race.

Here's the ADL's take.

 

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/combating-hate/Hate-Crimes-Law-The-ADL-Approach.pdf

Clyde you are an intelligent poster here so I want to run a thought by you.

 

Am I the only one who thinks hate crime charges are pointless . If assault someone why does it matter if I did it because of your skin color or if you looked at me wrong.

 

A crime is a crime. If I murder someone , hurt someone , or steal from someone. The only thing that should matter was if it was pre-meditated and how ruthless it was.

 

Why should a criminal go to jail for a less amount of time for killing my family member because he did it because of money instead of race.

 

I get the intent of the law but it's the execution that makes me think we should not have it. It's too nebulous.

 

Plus I think you get DAs/prosecutors who will use it to grandstand or play to a base.

So is rape a hate crime?

 

Could be. Depends on the rapist's intent and state of mind.

I believe the thought behind naming it a "hate crime" is enhancement of the penalty. So if you are convicted of assault and are sentanced to x, but it's deemed a hate crime it's not x2.

 

Much like having a firearm in the commission of a felony. The courts can tack on additional penalty.

 

I agree with Clyde. Enhancement penalties leave way too much up to the interpretation....Grand Jury has enough difficulty sifting through the initial testimony to begin with.

So is rape a hate crime?

 

I would categorize is closer to a hate crime than a crime of passion, wouldn't you agree? Rape is not about sex and for some, could indeed be about the race of the individual.

Deters said yesterday on Willie's show that someone in the group stole the guys phone and wallet as he was trying to make his way back somewhere. (I think his hotel) Anyone else hear the interview?

Four have been indicted thus far. A 5th has been arrested.

$100,000 bond for each.