The only and I do mean ONLY justification that I can really find for the Southern Heritage argument is the fact that less than 1/3 of southerners were slave owners and a much lower percentage than that were soldiers that were slave owners. While slavery was a keystone in the causality of the war, it was promoted by and profited from by less than a third of the people in the south. The political elite and wealthy wanted secession to maintain slavery as a economic engine to drive their own wealth...the vast majority of southerners had no dog in the fight.

 

That is why even back then it was sold as a states rights war and not a war over slavery. Because the southern soldiers wouldn't have rallied to fight and die to maintain slavery the way they would to preserve their own state. Even soldiers in the north wouldn't have been quick to have fought to end slavery, they were fighting more so to maintain the union.

Since Memphis has decided to dig up General Forest and his wife.

 

Why not dig up all Spaniards, destroy all Spanish monuments along with the Portuguese things since they are the first to bring slaves over.

We should also destroy all Islamic monuments because it was the Islamist who captured the blacks in Africa and sold them into slavery to the Spanish and Portuguese.

George Washington owned 318 slaves a thy were freed after his death in his will.

But he still owned slaves and his house should be burned down which is an attraction to see close to DC.

We can't pick and choose who and what.

 

Take that racist off the money and we should mention his as the first racist POTUS

George Washington owned 318 slaves a thy were freed after his death in his will.

But he still owned slaves and his house should be burned down which is an attraction to see close to DC.

We can't pick and choose who and what.

 

Take that racist off the money and we should mention his as the first racist POTUS

 

I'm pretty sure most people openly acknowledge that the first handful of President's were at best enablers of slavery and most likely racist. That's not anything Earth-shattering.

The only and I do mean ONLY justification that I can really find for the Southern Heritage argument is the fact that less than 1/3 of southerners were slave owners and a much lower percentage than that were soldiers that were slave owners. While slavery was a keystone in the causality of the war, it was promoted by and profited from by less than a third of the people in the south. The political elite and wealthy wanted secession to maintain slavery as a economic engine to drive their own wealth...the vast majority of southerners had no dog in the fight.

 

Not to be a stick in the mud here, but slavery was more than an economic system. Most people believed slavery to be the natural position for people of African descent, not simply something that made plantation owners rich.

 

Somewhere in this thread I posted a few of the states' secession statements and speeches by Davis and Stephens, they almost all reference this idea that slavery was the natural, God-ordained station for black people and that society would be corrupted with its abolition. I would say Southerners had a strong stake in the system even if they didn't own slaves.

 

A few points to bear it out: When Confederate armies caught freed blacks in the North they killed them or sent them back to the South to work as slaves; black Union regiments were massacred when trying to surrender; Confederate armies resisted allowing black soldiers until the bitter end (“If slaves will make good soldiers, our whole theory of slavery is wrong.”); and lastly, once the war was over the South instituted a system of racial segregation and oppression predicated on the same beliefs that also under-girded slavery: that the proper station in life for black persons was subordinate to their white counterparts.

I'm pretty sure most people openly acknowledge that the first handful of President's were at best enablers of slavery and most likely racist. That's not anything Earth-shattering.

 

True

We need to eliminate their names from American History and ban anything that bears their name and take it down.

True

We need to eliminate their names from American History and ban anything that bears their name and take it down.

 

Who's saying we need to eliminate the Confederate flag from American History? Well, outside of the Texas school system apparently.

Everyone is saying it from what I have read

 

Hell they plan on digging up Nathan Forrest and his wife a putting them elsewhere.

Where does it all stop.

Everyone is saying it from what I have read

 

Hell they plan on digging up Nathan Forrest and his wife a putting them elsewhere.

Where does it all stop.

 

Not a single person is saying to remove any of it from history. There's a huge difference between acknowledging it as part of American history, and glorifying it by flying a racist symbol at a State Capital building.

Not a single person is saying to remove any of it from history. There's a huge difference between acknowledging it as part of American history, and glorifying it by flying a racist symbol at a State Capital building.

Was the flag flying over the capitol or at a war memorial on capitol grounds? I ask because my understanding is that the flag over the capitol was taken down a while back and that this flag in SC is at a separate war memorial on state capitol grounds. If it shouldn't be on state grounds at a war memorial then should it be in a state own museum to the same war? That what they say they are going to do with it.

 

This isn't directed at you UKMF just tagging onto what you said.

^I wouldn't have an issue if they have a state museum that has it as part of an exhibit. It's part of the history of the state. It's important to recognize history, both good and bad.

Remove the flag and we should remove George Washington pict from money, he is also a symbol of racism.

Not to be a stick in the mud here, but slavery was more than an economic system. Most people believed slavery to be the natural position for people of African descent, not simply something that made plantation owners rich.

 

Somewhere in this thread I posted a few of the states' secession statements and speeches by Davis and Stephens, they almost all reference this idea that slavery was the natural, God-ordained station for black people and that society would be corrupted with its abolition. I would say Southerners had a strong stake in the system even if they didn't own slaves.

 

A few points to bear it out: When Confederate armies caught freed blacks in the North they killed them or sent them back to the South to work as slaves; black Union regiments were massacred when trying to surrender; Confederate armies resisted allowing black soldiers until the bitter end (“If slaves will make good soldiers, our whole theory of slavery is wrong.”); and lastly, once the war was over the South instituted a system of racial segregation and oppression predicated on the same beliefs that also under-girded slavery: that the proper station in life for black persons was subordinate to their white counterparts.

Who lead this army for the most part, nearly all officers were from southern aristocracy not surprising that they had that few.

 

I understand what you are saying, my original point was that this was the ONLY justification that could be purported. That not everyone felt the same way about slavery and many were just fighting for their home state not for political reasons.

 

Just like today, how many of our soldiers agreed with Vietnam or even Iraq...but they go because they are ordered to do so. And fight because that's what they are trained to do. I just think a lot of Confederate Soldiers may have been in the same boat.

Remove the flag and we should remove George Washington pict from money, he is also a symbol of racism.

 

He's not, but you're entitled to believe whatever makes you feel better.

Who lead this army for the most part, nearly all officers were from southern aristocracy not surprising that they had that few.

 

I understand what you are saying, my original point was that this was the ONLY justification that could be purported. That not everyone felt the same way about slavery and many were just fighting for their home state not for political reasons.

 

Just like today, how many of our soldiers agreed with Vietnam or even Iraq...but they go because they are ordered to do so. And fight because that's what they are trained to do. I just think a lot of Confederate Soldiers may have been in the same boat.

 

Anyone who uses that as justification is ignoring the Jim Crow era.