May 15, 201511 yr @Edwerderespn: Roger Goodell invokes his right under CBA to preside over Tom Brady appeal, per souce, as @MIKEfreemanNFL first reported
May 15, 201511 yr If it were me, I'd be the same way. Give me a good reason to give you my phone. I don't have to prove my innocence, you have to prove my guilt. Even now, no guilt has been proven. It's not about having something to hide. It's about having a right to privacy, even as a public figure. Besides, even if he had (or does eventually), and nothing was found, people like you would STILL not accept it. Yet he didn't have to turn over his phone. That was already stated by Wells.
May 15, 201511 yr I laughed when I heard the nickname Deflator originated from McNally's crusade to lose weight. The Pats just keep digging deeper. Now Goodell gets to hear the appeal, that should go well.
May 15, 201511 yr Ignorant?? That's a little harsh:rolleyes: Again, I don't know what happened. I just don't think my "ignorant argument" is all that far fetched. But even if Brady told them a specific PSI that was way under, I'm just not all that upset about it. He got caught and got punished. And while I think it's harsh, it is what it is. I also don't think a football being a lb or two "flat" is a huge infraction. It certainly isn't why Brady is one of the top10 QB's in NFL history. And it ain't enough for me to brand him a horrible cheater, and discount everything he has accomplished. Especially when a rule is likely broken on every snap in a football game. I've held a guy when I was getting beat. I've knowingly committed pass interference to prevent a TD. That's breaking a rule and cheating. I ain't gonna hate on Tom for something like this. Wasn't saying you were ignorant. I was saying if you think about it, that alibi is doesn't make any sense. Wasn't harsh at all. If you think about your story, it really isn't logical. Again, why would they even mess with the footballs on their own? Then why after inspected? The only way they would have to deflate the balls after inspected is if they wanted them below the allowable psi. There is absolutely no other logical reason to do so. As as I said, if what you stated was what happened every week then they simply would have already had the footballs at 12.5 psi before they were inspected. Also so again I could care less about the psi myself. What I'm saying is cheating is cheating period. Don't care what it was, it was deliberate cheating when they did what they did AFTER the officials inspected the footballs. I understand how many don't think cheating is a big deal. Maybe because they were raised during the 90's when it was common with the ped's etc in baseball etc. I guess I was just brought up different. Edited May 15, 201511 yr by Hellbird
May 15, 201511 yr Wasn't saying you were ignorant. I was saying if you think about it, that alibi is ignorant. Wasn't harsh at all. If you think about your story, it really isn't logical. Again, why would they even mess with the footballs on their own? Then why after inspected? The only way they would have to deflate the balls after inspected is if they wanted them below the allowable psi. There is absolutely no other logical reason to do so. As as I said, if what you stated was what happened every week then they simply would have already had the footballs at 12.5 psi before they were inspected. Also so again I could care less about the psi myself. What I'm saying is cheating is cheating period. Don't care what it was, it was deliberate cheating when they did what they did AFTER the officials inspected the footballs. I understand how many don't think cheating is a big deal, I believe it is because most who see no big deal are younger and raised during the 90's where cheating with ped's etc in baseball etc was prevalent. That is how the younger generation was brought up. I on the other hand think cheating is pretty low. Just a personal opinion. No, I get you were calling the argument ignorant, not me. My feelings aren't hurt:thumb: I just don't think you can really prove either argument, and it seems that even though there are plausible explanations, it comes down to how much you hate Brady as to what you are willing to believe. Was it possibly shady? Yep. Can you prove it? Nope, not without speculating. Why did Tom want the balls deflated after inspection? Maybe because they just didn't feel right because it was a little colder. Maybe he woke up with a sore hand because he slept on it wrong. Or he had a hangnail. Perhaps his center tripped and fell and hurt his wrist and needed the balls a little softer so he could snap effectively in the shotgun. Who knows?? And when the equipment manager went to let the air out of the ball, the knucklehead didn't have a pressure gauge (or maybe had an inaccurate one:idunno:) and let just a little too much out. As far as cheating goes, come on, you know it happens, and it has always happened. Cheating in baseball didn't begin with PED's in the 90's. Corked bats, sharpened spikes, spitballs, fake tags, sign stealing, scuffed baseballs are just a few things that have been going on since the beginning of the sport. Intentionally breaking rules at the end of basketball games (sorry but fouls are breaking the rules) to manipulate possessions and intentional pass interference penalties to prevent touchdowns are ways that rules of the game are broken, but yet are completely acceptable and even encouraged. Flopping in basketball and soccer....that's gamesmenship right....nope, it's cheating. You want to know how to cheat...ask an old guy who's seen it all. So stop making this a generational argument. Us old guys ain't any better. If there's a rule, either someone has figured out or is trying to figure out a way to either get around it or just bend it a little. Tom Brady ain't the first or even close to the worst. I'll say it again...a rule is broken on every play in the NFL.
May 15, 201511 yr Gateman ship and cheating are totally different. Holding penalty is part of the game. Corked bat isn't. Passing interference is is a penalty and when it occurs they get flagged and the team is punished. There isn't a flag for deflating footballs. It is t part of the game therefor not a 10 yard penalty. You know the difference. I actually wouldn't think twice about it if they had the footballs under inflated prior to the officials inspecting them. It's totally different when they wait until after the inspection and then sneak off and deflate them. To act as if people don't understand the difference is just silly. Corked bat...cheating Holding...penalty Deflating footballs ... Cheating passing interference ...penalty videotaping signals...cheating there is a huge difference.
May 15, 201511 yr No, I get you were calling the argument ignorant, not me. My feelings aren't hurt:thumb: I just don't think you can really prove either argument, and it seems that even though there are plausible explanations, it comes down to how much you hate Brady as to what you are willing to believe. Was it possibly shady? Yep. Can you prove it? Nope, not without speculating. Why did Tom want the balls deflated after inspection? Maybe because they just didn't feel right because it was a little colder. Maybe he woke up with a sore hand because he slept on it wrong. Or he had a hangnail. Perhaps his center tripped and fell and hurt his wrist and needed the balls a little softer so he could snap effectively in the shotgun. Who knows?? And when the equipment manager went to let the air out of the ball, the knucklehead didn't have a pressure gauge (or maybe had an inaccurate one:idunno:) and let just a little too much out. As far as cheating goes, come on, you know it happens, and it has always happened. Cheating in baseball didn't begin with PED's in the 90's. Corked bats, sharpened spikes, spitballs, fake tags, sign stealing, scuffed baseballs are just a few things that have been going on since the beginning of the sport. Intentionally breaking rules at the end of basketball games (sorry but fouls are breaking the rules) to manipulate possessions and intentional pass interference penalties to prevent touchdowns are ways that rules of the game are broken, but yet are completely acceptable and even encouraged. Flopping in basketball and soccer....that's gamesmenship right....nope, it's cheating. You want to know how to cheat...ask an old guy who's seen it all. So stop making this a generational argument. Us old guys ain't any better. If there's a rule, either someone has figured out or is trying to figure out a way to either get around it or just bend it a little. Tom Brady ain't the first or even close to the worst. I'll say it again...a rule is broken on every play in the NFL. There you go with unbiased logic again......you're making this a habit.
May 15, 201511 yr Gateman ship and cheating are totally different. Holding penalty is part of the game. Corked bat isn't. Passing interference is is a penalty and when it occurs they get flagged and the team is punished. There isn't a flag for deflating footballs. It is t part of the game therefor not a 10 yard penalty. You know the difference. I actually wouldn't think twice about it if they had the footballs under inflated prior to the officials inspecting them. It's totally different when they wait until after the inspection and then sneak off and deflate them. To act as if people don't understand the difference is just silly. Corked bat...cheating Holding...penalty Deflating footballs ... Cheating passing interference ...penalty videotaping signals...cheating there is a huge difference. Not really. Corked bats (actually any illegal bat) are part of the game, and there is a prescribed penalty should you get caught. It's covered in the rule book. Just like all the other rules like holding and PI in football. Deflating a football technically carries no prescribed penalty or consequence. No yardage enforcement, no ejection. Nothing. If there's no penalty or consequence, is it really that important?? And if it is so important, why don't they have a better system in place to make sure these shenanigans don't happen?? Say what you want about "part of the game" vs cheating. But cheating is defined as "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." Any penalty exists to prevent a player from unfairly gaining an advantage. If you commit a penalty to gain an advantage (or to prevent your opponent from having and advantage), you are, by definition, cheating.
May 15, 201511 yr Not really. Corked bats (actually any illegal bat) are part of the game, and there is a prescribed penalty should you get caught. It's covered in the rule book. Just like all the other rules like holding and PI in football. Deflating a football technically carries no prescribed penalty or consequence. No yardage enforcement, no ejection. Nothing. If there's no penalty or consequence, is it really that important?? Say what you want about "part of the game" vs cheating. But cheating is defined as "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." Any penalty exists to prevent a player from unfairly gaining an advantage. If you commit a penalty to gain an advantage (or to prevent your opponent from having and advantage), you are, by definition, cheating. Huge difference. Corked bats aren't part of the game and is why they are not allowed in the game. You get caught with one you get disqualified. You don't get disqualified for a holding call. Put it this way. Is a holding call a Protestable offense for a game? After the game can it be forfeited of the coach files a protest for holding? No. Now if you are a HS football team who suits up a 22 year old college player and get caught, is that something the other team can protest after the game? Yes. There is a difference in cheating (playing OSU's E Elliot) as Scott's RB against Simon Kenton and aholding call during a play in the game. you just described the difference in a penalty and cheating in your own post when you said there isn't yardage marked off for deflating footballs which means it is not a penalty but is cheating because there is a rule stating what the psi for game balls is to be. if you need to cheat you don't think you are good enough to win honestly so if that is how Brady feels then who am I to argue?
May 15, 201511 yr F Huge difference. Corked bats aren't part of the game and is why they are not allowed in the game. You get caught with one you get disqualified. You don't get disqualified for a holding call. Put it this way. Is a holding call a Protestable offense for a game? After the game can it be forfeited of the coach files a protest for holding? No. Now if you are a HS football team who suits up a 22 year old college player and get caught, is that something the other team can protest after the game? Yes. There is a difference in cheating (playing OSU's E Elliot) as Scott's RB against Simon Kenton and aholding call during a play in the game. you just described the difference in a penalty and cheating in your own post when you said there isn't yardage marked off for deflating footballs which means it is not a penalty but is cheating because there is a rule stating what the psi for game balls is to be. Yes some rules have harsh penalties for breaking them, and some don't. I understand there is a difference. But are you really equating a high school football team playing a too old, ineligible player with letting a little air out of a football?? My point wasn't that a rule wasn't broken. It was. But it a rule that has no prescribed penalty or consequences for doing so. Again, Tom probably was at least a little guilty. But we can't prove it for sure. Like I said, the center handles the ball just as much...he's gotta be able to grip too. Maybe he's part of the conspiracy. Rules are rules. But people knowingly and purposely break the rules in sports all the time. And the degree of punishment is based on how much of an advantage you gain or how detrimental of an affect on the game breaking the rule has. And sometimes, the punishment is worth taking. It's just simply my opinion, that if you knowingly, break a rule or commit a penalty, that's a form of cheating. And if you do so in the framework of the game and it doesn't alter the spirit of the game, it's not that big of deal. And Tom playing with a slightly softer ball fits that category. You and I just have different views.
May 15, 201511 yr Come on---They barely squeaked by in the game vs. Indy? The balls must have been the difference? It's called sarcasm--Obviously this whole thing is a joke, and totally preventable by the league if they chose. This punishment was leftover angst from "Spygate", and frustration that they couldn't again pin anything on Belicheck IMO. The report said very little if anything about any involvement by the team or coaches; so why the lost draft picks? It appears they are equating letting some air out of the ball in a total blowout with the "thugs, drugs & significant other beating" offenses in recent years? The league is starting to look a lot like the NCAA (or KHSAA for that matter) in these rulings??
May 15, 201511 yr F Yes some rules have harsh penalties for breaking them, and some don't. I understand there is a difference. But are you really equating a high school football team playing a too old, ineligible player with letting a little air out of a football?? My point wasn't that a rule wasn't broken. It was. But it a rule that has no prescribed penalty or consequences for doing so. Again, Tom probably was at least a little guilty. But we can't prove it for sure. Like I said, the center handles the ball just as much...he's gotta be able to grip too. Maybe he's part of the conspiracy. Rules are rules. But people knowingly and purposely break the rules in sports all the time. And the degree of punishment is based on how much of an advantage you gain or how detrimental of an affect on the game breaking the rule has. And sometimes, the punishment is worth taking. It's just simply my opinion, that if you knowingly, break a rule or commit a penalty, that's a form of cheating. And if you do so in the framework of the game and it doesn't alter the spirit of the game, it's not that big of deal. And Tom playing with a slightly softer ball fits that category. You and I just have different views. The bolded is what I like. There is no such thing as "a little guilty" You are either guilty or not lol. Also when you say rules are rules and people break rules all the time. That doesn't make it right which is where I see many on here confusing. Breaking a rule such is this doesn't make it right and many on here act as if it is ok to do. It's never ok to do. Again, that could be just the difference in the way I was brought up. I wasn't brought up being taught to bend and break the rules as often as possible and just hope you never get caught. Cheating is cheating period and in no way is it ever the right thing to do or ok.
May 15, 201511 yr Gateman ship and cheating are totally different. Holding penalty is part of the game. Corked bat isn't. Passing interference is is a penalty and when it occurs they get flagged and the team is punished. There isn't a flag for deflating footballs. It is t part of the game therefor not a 10 yard penalty. You know the difference. I actually wouldn't think twice about it if they had the footballs under inflated prior to the officials inspecting them. It's totally different when they wait until after the inspection and then sneak off and deflate them. To act as if people don't understand the difference is just silly. Corked bat...cheating Holding...penalty Deflating footballs ... Cheating passing interference ...penalty videotaping signals...cheating there is a huge difference. I generally come down on the other side of this whole deflate-gate thing than you HB but I TOTALLY agree with this post... I think the Pats did something with the footballs and should be punished - I think the punishment levied is so over the top it is insane. But comparing holding or pass interference to corking bats and videotaping signals is not right IMO.
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