For those who say the onus is on the batter to adapt and make the pitcher/defense "pay" by bunting against the shift...how come you can't say the same thing about the pitcher? I mean, if you know a guy is a dead pull hitter...why in the world are you giving him something he can pull to begin with? To mean, by advocating the shift, you're saying that your pitcher isn't good enough to get this guy out with defenders at the normal positions.

For those who say the onus is on the batter to adapt and make the pitcher/defense "pay" by bunting against the shift...how come you can't say the same thing about the pitcher? I mean, if you know a guy is a dead pull hitter...why in the world are you giving him something he can pull to begin with? To mean, by advocating the shift, you're saying that your pitcher isn't good enough to get this guy out with defenders at the normal positions.

 

Changing defenses is in every game. In basketball they can play different defenses. different types of zones, man, box and 1, triangle and 2, they can press.

In football they can play zone, man, blitz, etc

 

How is that any different then shifting in baseball?

Changing defenses is in every game. In basketball they can play different defenses. different types of zones, man, box and 1, triangle and 2, they can press.

In football they can play zone, man, blitz, etc

 

How is that any different then shifting in baseball?

 

You're right. It's not different... The onus should be on the offense (the batter) to make a counter adjustment to the defense's adjustment.

It's called "competing"...the basic premise of every sport.

You're right. It's not different... The onus should be on the offense (the batter) to make a counter adjustment to the defense's adjustment.

It's called "competing"...the basic premise of every sport.

 

agree

If you only count bunt hits. However, if getting some extra hits caused the defense not to shift he'd be getting some more hits on balls to the right side as well.

 

And if you let Trout continue to bunt his way on you'd likely see him steal 45+ bases again.

 

I understand your point and I too get upset with Bruce at times for not going the other way either because he won't or can't. However, every manager starts a series with the idea that there is one player who is not beating them. The last few years that has been Bruce for the Reds because he has the most pop on the team and because Votto has not been Votto. Therefore, most managers would be more than happy to let him single his way on and will not take the shift off no matter how many bunt/infield singles he gets.

 

As for Trout, he can have all the singles and stolen bases he wants as long as he doesn't beat me with a three run dinger. I'd be happy to basically give up a double to him every time and take my chances. On that team however your taking a chance with either Pujols or Hamilton behind him and that's scary if they're healthy.

 

I actually love small ball but there are a few guys in the lineup who have to drive in runs and protect the rest of the lineup. Bruce should be one of those and I hope he gets back to it again this year.

I understand your point and I too get upset with Bruce at times for not going the other way either because he won't or can't. However, every manager starts a series with the idea that there is one player who is not beating them. The last few years that has been Bruce for the Reds because he has the most pop on the team and because Votto has not been Votto. Therefore, most managers would be more than happy to let him single his way on and will not take the shift off no matter how many bunt/infield singles he gets.

 

As for Trout, he can have all the singles and stolen bases he wants as long as he doesn't beat me with a three run dinger. I'd be happy to basically give up a double to him every time and take my chances. On that team however your taking a chance with either Pujols or Hamilton behind him and that's scary if they're healthy.

 

I actually love small ball but there are a few guys in the lineup who have to drive in runs and protect the rest of the lineup. Bruce should be one of those and I hope he gets back to it again this year.

 

You don't see a whole lot of teams play a shift with 2 guys on...I don't think it has much effect on preventing 3 run homers.

If it's part of their process, sure there is.

 

I don't get people complaining about the length of games. If it bothers people so much, they don't have to watch. :idunno:

 

And people don't but if they are trying to make the game more popular speeding it up is 100% a must. They can easily cut down on time between innings which can help a little. I don't see the problem with a reasonable pitch clock.

And people don't but if they are trying to make the game more popular speeding it up is 100% a must. They can easily cut down on time between innings which can help a little. I don't see the problem with a reasonable pitch clock.

 

Like I said, there's no scenario, IMO, where the pitch clock is less than :30. More than :30 between pitches is extremely rare. Even still, when does the pitch clock start? What if it's a foul ball?

 

The best thing about baseball is there is no clock. There's a ton of gamesmanship that goes on with hitters. Are they no longer going to be able to call timeout before a pitch?

 

The more I think about it the less I like it.

Like I said, there's no scenario, IMO, where the pitch clock is less than :30. More than :30 between pitches is extremely rare. Even still, when does the pitch clock start? What if it's a foul ball?

 

The best thing about baseball is there is no clock. There's a ton of gamesmanship that goes on with hitters. Are they no longer going to be able to call timeout before a pitch?

 

 

The more I think about it the less I like it.

 

I see what you are saying but is there really a need for Sean Casey to step out of the box and adjust his shirt and gloves 15 times and waste 45 seconds before the next pitch? You could cut out 5 minutes alone from his at bats. You miss the pitch clock it's a ball. You don't need 30 seconds to throw a pitch. I'd start the clock once the pitcher catches the ball from the ump or catcher and reset it if he steps off. I don't know if 30 seconds is the right number I'm just using it as an example.

Baseball is in a weird spot. It's a game steeped in its traditions as much or moreso than any other sport, and that's a major reason its revered among its fans. But it's these things that also keep it from adapting and roping in more/new fans the way the NFL has been able to. More offense or faster games might draw in more fans or convert the casual to intense, but it will only come at the expense of the existing die-hards, as this thread demonstrates.

 

I'm something of a weird case in that I like a lot of the trappings of tradition in baseball, but I'm simultaneously pushed away by it. I follow the Reds quasi-religiously and I love having the game one while I'm doing something else. But that's just the problem: Baseball is voluminous and slow enough I can relax with it on, yet I'm not going out of my way to watch games when the Reds aren't playing; it's too much of an investment to slog through four hours of two teams I don't care about.

 

So, I don't know. Baseball is in a catch-22 with its traditions.

 

Thinking the same thing but it's the ONLY instance I can remember seeing.

I hope they enact a pitch clock. That will really help the speed of the game. I think the did it in Arozona Fall ball this year and games were significantly less

 

Just don't allow the batter to step both feet outside the box and you will certainly speed things up. This adjusting your gloves, scratching your crotch, "look at me stuff", adds way too much time to a game imo.

If it's part of their process, sure there is.

 

I don't get people complaining about the length of games. If it bothers people so much, they don't have to watch. :idunno:

 

and apparently a lot of people don't.

I have never noticed batters be all that bad in taking time between pitches. My bigger complaint is pitchers who take 1 minute between pitches. They get the ball, walk around the mound, take their cap off, rub the ball, etc. Erik Bedard and Edwin Jackson 2 of the worst I've ever watched at this.

 

I've never understood why pitchers do this. Puts your defense asleep and you think more instead of just playing. Just get the ball and throw. Make a rule where they can't walk off the mound or something. That and shorten the between innings garbage. Watch Johnny Cueto throw warm up pitches, it's pointless.

College baseball has a pitch clock and a between innings clock. I don't watch enough to remember the details, but when I have been there I haven't noticed it having any type of negative effect on the flow, while I believe I've seen the stats show that it does help with game length.

 

I'm a proponent of cutting down on the time relievers have to warm up. Get loose in the bullpen and when you come in, you're ready to go. That would prevent the 3 reliever half inning from taking 40 minutes.