As long as there are those that want to blame something that's not a cause to push their agenda, you're right. You're helping them if you think the gun is the problem.

 

Why aren't you open to seeing if guns are part of the problem? It is the weapon of choice in the vast majority of these killings? Until we look at everything, then it is not comprehensive enough. If it determined that they aren't part of the problem in an unbiased study, then I would be ok with what you state as them not being part of the problem. Until we are willing to do this, there are no solutions.

 

I never said guns were the problem, but could be PART of the problem. I'd like to find out.

Gun ownership is not a perceived right in this country - it is a real one and will remain so until the Second Amendment is repealed. It is a right that deserves as much respect and any other constitutional right.

 

How about amended with clarity? It is perceived by some as too vague, me included. I also believe the country is vastly different than when originally written. I do believe in the Constitution and the rights that go with it, but I also believe it is a living document and not a done deal.

How about amended with clarity? It is perceived by some as too vague, me included. I also believe the country is vastly different than when originally written. I do believe in the Constitution and the rights that go with it, but I also believe it is a living document and not a done deal.

The U.S. Constitution is a living document in that it established an amendment process. The reasons that the Second Amendment are as valid today as they were the day that it was written. If enough Americans want to tweak the Second Amendment through the amendment process and give the government more control over guns, then I can live with that.

 

What I refuse to accept as legitimate are measures to circumvent the Second Amendment that seek to rob us of our rights without amending the Constitution. Electing different politicians and appointing different judges to federal courts should have no bearing on our basic constitutional rights. Unfortunately, politicians are increasingly willing to deprive Americans of constitutional rights for 51 percent of the popular vote - or even less.

Why aren't you open to seeing if guns are part of the problem? It is the weapon of choice in the vast majority of these killings? Until we look at everything, then it is not comprehensive enough. If it determined that they aren't part of the problem in an unbiased study, then I would be ok with what you state as them not being part of the problem. Until we are willing to do this, there are no solutions.

 

I never said guns were the problem, but could be PART of the problem. I'd like to find out.

Explain to me how the gun is PART of the problem. If I broke in your house and bashed your brains in with a Louisville Slugger, would the Louisville Slugger be a PART of the problem or would my violent misuse of it be? The bat was what I used, it didn't make me commit the crime. A gun doesn't make someone commit a crime. It doesn't talk someone into killing innocent people. What is a PART of the problem is mental health issues. I don't know how we address that, but it certainly needs to be seriously looked at.

I see psychotropic drugs as being a real part of the problem. That needs to be looked at much more than what is being used. Trying to vilify guns, as Mr Bloomberg and his group are doing isn't a solution, it's part of the problem of why nothing will be done to stop it.

 

I don't view you as anti-gun, I'm not trying to be flip with you. I just really think you're "barking up the wrong tree".

My biggest issue right now, after learning that one can sell a gun online, with a meet up at a roadside inn, is that anyone can buy a gun, regardless of any reasons they aren't legally able to do so. I think that is a loophole that needs to be addressed. A lot is said about the fact that those who want a fire arm can get one, well, yeah....we don't even have anything in place to stop those not legally able to own a fire arm from doing so.

Here's the problem. Most criminals obtain firearms by theft or black market transactions and they don't care about any laws or restrictions. Do you have any idea how many guns are in this country right now?

 

Let's say a law is passed that closes that loophole. What then? How will that stop a criminal from obtaining a gun? They will still get their gun. Don't believe me? Look at how rampant the heroin problem is. Illegal drug, right? How will more stringent national gun laws stop gun violence? We all know how strict gun laws are in Chicago. Here's some food for thought:

 

2014 Chicago Crime and Murder Stats:

 

Last Week’s Tally (Sun 7/13 – Sat 7/19)

Shot & Killed: 7

Shot & Wounded: 59

Total Homicides: 7

 

July to Date

Shot & Killed: 34

Shot & Wounded: 188

Total Homicides: 34

 

Year To Date Totals

Shot & Killed: 191

Shot & Wounded: 1139

Total Homicides: 225

 

Bottom line, criminals don't care about laws. Much like drugs, illegalization, restrictions or even confiscation won't stop a criminal. Another major problem, you can't regulate a sick mind. Your only hope is to be lucky enough to find they have a sick mind before they commit the crime. That's what needs to be done. I just don't have an answer as to how that's done. I wish I did.

My biggest issue right now, after learning that one can sell a gun online, with a meet up at a roadside inn, is that anyone can buy a gun, regardless of any reasons they aren't legally able to do so. I think that is a loophole that needs to be addressed. A lot is said about the fact that those who want a fire arm can get one, well, yeah....we don't even have anything in place to stop those not legally able to own a fire arm from doing so.

I don't know what law could ever be written to stop private sales. FWIW I don't think that is where most or even much of the problem lies.

My biggest issue right now, after learning that one can sell a gun online, with a meet up at a roadside inn, is that anyone can buy a gun, regardless of any reasons they aren't legally able to do so. I think that is a loophole that needs to be addressed. A lot is said about the fact that those who want a fire arm can get one, well, yeah....we don't even have anything in place to stop those not legally able to own a fire arm from doing so.

I'm curious. Have you never weighed in on the threads about gun shows? Seems you did, maybe I'm remiss.

Explain to me how the gun is PART of the problem. If I broke in your house and bashed your brains in with a Louisville Slugger, would the Louisville Slugger be a PART of the problem or would my violent misuse of it be? The bat was what I used, it didn't make me commit the crime. A gun doesn't make someone commit a crime. It doesn't talk someone into killing innocent people. What is a PART of the problem is mental health issues. I don't know how we address that, but it certainly needs to be seriously looked at.

I see psychotropic drugs as being a real part of the problem. That needs to be looked at much more than what is being used. Trying to vilify guns, as Mr Bloomberg and his group are doing isn't a solution, it's part of the problem of why nothing will be done to stop it.

 

I don't view you as anti-gun, I'm not trying to be flip with you. I just really think you're "barking up the wrong tree".

 

I am not anti-gun at all, but I do see them as possibly being a part of the problem. The general reason for guns invention was to kill things and people being a part of that. I realize there are and should be recreational use and protection use of them at a reasonable and responsible level. I know that is debateable, also. At this time, I have never been convinced that if we had reasonable controls and legislation for whatever those guns are called that kill many in a few seconds that would limit their uses to own.

 

I am not naive enough to to think that abolishing guns solves the problems or is the only solution, however, I am always open to an unbiased study to anything that might be part of the problem. If that study happens and guns are not part of the problem, then I am cool with it.

 

The real challenge is who conducts this unbiased study not influenced by money, power, and people that are so inflexible in their beliefs on either side of the gun issue.

Why aren't you open to seeing if guns are part of the problem? It is the weapon of choice in the vast majority of these killings?

 

I thought baseball bats, hammers and other blunt, heavy objects were used more often in murders than guns?

I found this interesting, it's from May 7, 2013:

 

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

 

In 2010, there were 3.6 gun homicides per 100,000 people, compared with 7.0 in 1993, according to CDC data.

In 2010, CDC data counted 11,078 gun homicide deaths, compared with 18,253 in 1993.5

Men and boys make up the vast majority (84% in 2010) of gun homicide victims. The firearm homicide rate also is more than five times as high for males of all ages (6.2 deaths per 100,000 people) as it is for females (1.1 deaths per 100,000 people).

By age group, 69% of gun homicide victims in 2010 were ages 18 to 40, an age range that was 31% of the population that year. Gun homicide rates also are highest for adults ages 18 to 24 and 25 to 40.

A disproportionate share of gun homicide victims are black (55% in 2010, compared with the 13% black share of the population). Whites were 25% of victims but 65% of the population in 2010. Hispanics were 17% of victims and 16% of the population in 2010.

The firearm suicide rate (6.3 per 100,000 people) is higher than the firearm homicide rate and has come down less sharply. The number of gun suicide deaths (19,392 in 2010) outnumbered gun homicides, as has been true since at least 1981.

I thought baseball bats, hammers and other blunt, heavy objects were used more often in murders than guns?

 

I don't believe that is true in these mass killings in public places, and their intent were never to kill things. I understand people's beliefs on guns and the 2nd Amendment, but why should they not be a pert of an unbiased study. That leads me to believe that some are just not open to the study because they might find they are linked. Because of that I remain even more firm in my beliefs they could be part of the problem.

I don't believe that is true in these mass killings in public places, and their intent were never to kill things. I understand people's beliefs on guns and the 2nd Amendment, but why should they not be a pert of an unbiased study. That leads me to believe that some are just not open to the study because they might find they are linked. Because of that I remain even more firm in my beliefs they could be part of the problem.

I just can't figure out how a gun causes the violence or is a part of the problem. Maybe I'm not understanding your point, if you'd wish to clarify that may help me.

I don't believe that is true in these mass killings in public places, and their intent were never to kill things. I understand people's beliefs on guns and the 2nd Amendment, but why should they not be a pert of an unbiased study. That leads me to believe that some are just not open to the study because they might find they are linked. Because of that I remain even more firm in my beliefs they could be part of the problem.

Any study of firearm murders will include firearms, but to say the firearms are the cause is an over reach. It would be like saying, Beer, Cars or Car Keys cause DUI's.

Any study of firearm murders will include firearms, but to say the firearms are the cause is an over reach. It would be like saying, Beer, Cars or Car Keys cause DUI's.

 

I was going to use the car analogy myself but it can be misconstrued. I do understand the person is no doubt the main factor, but I am not sure it is the only one.

I was going to use the car analogy myself but it can be misconstrued. I do understand the person is no doubt the main factor, but I am not sure it is the only one.

How do you think the gun it's self causes murder or other gun violence?