That was the question I was going to ask. If Votto hits 2nd, who hits 3rd?

 

Never mind. There are so many moving parts it is a waste of time to even think about it. we are just going to have to wait and see what moves the Reds make this winter.

They have to bring in a capable #3 hitter for that to work IMO. Like you said, a lot of moving parts.

@LanceMcAlister: "He has to fit better into the role we see for him, or he might have to hit in a different spot in the order." - Walt, 700 WLW #Reds #Wow"

 

@LanceMcAlister: "that's something Bryan will certainly approach with Joey, and something we will discuss. There are certain things he has to do" - Walt #Reds"

 

Interesting comments from Walt about Votto...

 

 

Walt made these comments when Cunningham was interviewing him on the radio yesterday. Willy asked some straight forward questions without beating around the bush, and to Walt's credit, he answered most honestly. He had to side step some stuff (coaching changes) which he has to do until they make the decisions. I was shocked when he was honest about Votto and having to change his approach or move in the order. Love it!! He also, when asked about BP attack on the Boss and C Trent, that BP was wrong and they let him know he was wrong and handled it in-house.

For you stat heads I don't understand why anyone would argue against Votto in the 2 hole. But alas there isn't a classic 3 hole in the organization.

 

He absolutely should hit 2nd. First off the math/stats say your best hitter should hit 2nd anyway and he's their best hitter. Secondly the dude studies his own hitting, others hitting and the pitchers more than maybe anyone else in baseball. If he isn't comfortable swinging at pitches out of the zone and he's admitted that numerous times why would anyone try to change that? It's dumb to me.

He absolutely should hit 2nd. First off the math/stats say your best hitter should hit 2nd anyway and he's their best hitter. Secondly the dude studies his own hitting, others hitting and the pitchers more than maybe anyone else in baseball. If he isn't comfortable swinging at pitches out of the zone and he's admitted that numerous times why would anyone try to change that? It's dumb to me.

Um, the ones he watches in the zone looking for a BB instead of guarding and wasting or hitting the other way ( like he used to) is the problem some have with him. Those that he watches then heads back for a seat next to Hanigan in the dugout is the problem. Not sure how that's not clear.

 

No idea where you read/heard that the best hitter should hit 2nd, but whatever that site is, I'd suggest you unsubscribe.

Edited October 25, 201312 yr by spindoc

He absolutely should hit 2nd. First off the math/stats say your best hitter should hit 2nd anyway and he's their best hitter. Secondly the dude studies his own hitting, others hitting and the pitchers more than maybe anyone else in baseball. If he isn't comfortable swinging at pitches out of the zone and he's admitted that numerous times why would anyone try to change that? It's dumb to me.

 

First bolded: Huh?

 

Second bolded: Are you saying he should swing at pitches out of the zone or they shouldn't try to change that he doesn't swing at pitches out of the strike zone?

For the record, everyone knows he needs to have a better season defensively and a better BA w/ RISP. However, no one knows more than he does.

For the record, everyone knows he needs to have a better season defensively and a better BA w/ RISP. However, no one knows more than he does.

Exactly!!

They have to bring in a capable #3 hitter for that to work IMO. Like you said, a lot of moving parts.

 

Who's cleanup

Alright, put me in the very, very, very small minority here. I'm fine with Votto's approach to the strike zone. He struck out nearly 50 times fewer than Bruce did, and walked 70 times more. I wish more players did that! For Votto to strike out, more times than naught, the pitcher had to make a pitch. How many times did we see Bruce strike out on a 55 foot pitch in the dirt? I don't like the fact that Votto's taking the heat for his K's, but Bruce, Frazier and Cozart get a free pass.

 

Do I wish he "hit" more with 2 outs and runners in scoring position? Sure. But, then again, with the way the rest of the offense was this year...EVERYBODY needed to do a better job at that. The thing that concerns me more than anything, was the fact that his power numbers were down this year. Why? I don't know. However, if I'm Brian Price, he's not playing in all 162 games next year. Give the guy a break every now and then. I'm sure his body could use it, and the way he approaches AB's, I'm sure he could use a mental day off every now and then too.

Here's a question....Say they don't retain Arroyo or Choo, and they trade BP for some prospects...What about seeing what it would take to get Carlos Beltran? He's a perfect fit for the 3 hole.

 

Thank you!! What Carlos Beltran would do for the Cincinnati Reds... I've been saying this for months. Beltran would not only bring his skill, but his leadership would do wonders for guys like Bruce and Votto. Beltran is the definition of a pro and he brings a swag (not stupid swag like BP) but a professional ball player swag that rubs off on other players. Not to mention what he would mean to the roster come October... Play him in 75-80% of the games and make sure he's ready in mid-September and he'll be worth the $$ amount.

 

This is from an article in August after the Cards beat the Reds 15-2 and sums up the type of TEAMMATE Carlos Beltran is... CINCINNATI -- On Sunday, perhaps the most significant contribution to the Cardinals' offense -- a group that has racked up 41 runs over its last three wins -- came from a hitter who had the day off.

 

Carlos Beltran, given a day off, took Matt Carpenter into the clubhouse during Sunday's matinee and offered some guidance to the scuffling second baseman. Using visual evidence from an at-bat from a few weeks ago, Beltran pinpointed differences in Carpenter's stance and swing and advised him to use his legs more. His suggestions helped Carpenter relax and the All-Star delivered.

 

Armed with a new approach, Carpenter strolled to the plate in the sixth inning with the bases loaded. He snapped an 0-for-23 skid with a two-run double that broke open the game, which St. Louis eventually claimed, 15-2, over Cincinnati at Great American Ball Park.

 

"Ever since he told me, I got two hits and a walk," Carpenter said. "So that's pretty good advice."

Back on topic... I see where people come from with moving Votto. I wouldn't mind seeing what he can do in the 2-hole but I don't think their offense is faltering b/c of his low production out of the 3-hole. Look at the Red Sox. Led the world in Offense and Pedroia smacked 9 HR's and drove in 84 as their 3 hitter. Craig is the Cardinals 4 hitter and he hit 13 HR's. I know it's the approach people are upset about but just suggesting it's not the end of the world if your 3/4 guys don't hit for power. If the Reds as a whole took the same approach as Votto (which is the same approach the Red Sox and Cards take) I don't think this issue is as big.

Alright, put me in the very, very, very small minority here. I'm fine with Votto's approach to the strike zone. He struck out nearly 50 times fewer than Bruce did, and walked 70 times more. I wish more players did that! For Votto to strike out, more times than naught, the pitcher had to make a pitch. How many times did we see Bruce strike out on a 55 foot pitch in the dirt? I don't like the fact that Votto's taking the heat for his K's, but Bruce, Frazier and Cozart get a free pass.

 

Do I wish he "hit" more with 2 outs and runners in scoring position? Sure. But, then again, with the way the rest of the offense was this year...EVERYBODY needed to do a better job at that. The thing that concerns me more than anything, was the fact that his power numbers were down this year. Why? I don't know. However, if I'm Brian Price, he's not playing in all 162 games next year. Give the guy a break every now and then. I'm sure his body could use it, and the way he approaches AB's, I'm sure he could use a mental day off every now and then too.

he makes a gazillion dollars. His standard is a little higher. Can't hide behind the contract.

First bolded: Huh?

 

Second bolded: Are you saying he should swing at pitches out of the zone or they shouldn't try to change that he doesn't swing at pitches out of the strike zone?

 

Best hitter especially with that high of an OBP should hit 2nd.

 

Whatever he wants to swing at. Not what uninformed fans want him to swing at

Um, the ones he watches in the zone looking for a BB instead of guarding and wasting or hitting the other way ( like he used to) is the problem some have with him. Those that he watches then heads back for a seat next to Hanigan in the dugout is the problem. Not sure how that's not clear.

 

No idea where you read/heard that the best hitter should hit 2nd, but whatever that site is, I'd suggest you unsubscribe.

 

Just because you don't understand the math that doesn't make it wrong. In fact it probably makes you wrong.

 

The Book: Playing the Percentages in Baseball: Tom M. Tango, Mitchel Lichtman, Andrew Dolphin, Pete Palmer: 9781597971294: Amazon.com: Books

Just because you don't understand the math that doesn't make it wrong. In fact it probably makes you wrong.

 

The Book: Playing the Percentages in Baseball: Tom M. Tango, Mitchel Lichtman, Andrew Dolphin, Pete Palmer: 9781597971294: Amazon.com: Books

You can poll this site, the world, the universe, and you'll find 7 people who puts their best hitter in the 2 hole. You're just not ever gonna get it. Oh, I agree numbers tell the tale in many aspects of the game. You're in the minority, but they're often right.