FKY is still upset over the whole Heath Bell signing. He hates all closers. :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:

FKY is still upset over the whole Heath Bell signing. He hates all closers. :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:

 

He does hate him some Heath Bell. :lol2:

:lol: :lol:

 

Worst. Argument. Ever.

I agree.

I think many of you are missing the point. Closers are part of baseball by the book 101 now. You aren't going to change that, especially with the money closers get today. The point is this ... it doesn't matter who your closer is. In my mind, if Chapman closes or Broxton or Hoover it doesn't matter. If none of them work out, there is another reliever that can be plugged in who will do the job. Heck, Sam LeClure would probably be a very good closer. The closer stats and blown saves stats will be about the same at the end of the year regardless of who closes, within reason of course. Chapman as a closer is not a difference maker over a season and he is even less of a difference maker in a short series, as was evidenced by the Reds vs. Giants.

I think many of you are missing the point. Closers are part of baseball by the book 101 now. You aren't going to change that, especially with the money closers get today. The point is this ... it doesn't matter who your closer is. In my mind, if Chapman closes or Broxton or Hoover it doesn't matter. If none of them work out, there is another reliever that can be plugged in who will do the job. Heck, Sam LeClure would probably be a very good closer. The closer stats and blown saves stats will be about the same at the end of the year regardless of who closes, within reason of course. Chapman as a closer is not a difference maker over a season and he is even less of a difference maker in a short series, as was evidenced by the Reds vs. Giants.

 

I don't think Chapman is the best closer ever, or even has the potential to be. However, with a history of arm fatigue and his ability to be lights out two days a week, I believe he needs to be a closer. Additionally, I do not believe the closer role is overrated, regardless of what some stat geeks say. Everyone has a guy or guys that throw in the last inning of a close game. Everyone isn't wrong.

I don't think Chapman is the best closer ever, or even has the potential to be. However, with a history of arm fatigue and his ability to be lights out two days a week, I believe he needs to be a closer. Additionally, I do not believe the closer role is overrated, regardless of what some stat geeks say. Everyone has a guy or guys that throw in the last inning of a close game. Everyone isn't wrong.

 

I would like to hear your ranking of the most important players/roles on a typical baseball team. Also, what players/roles are the most easily replaced?

I don't think Chapman is the best closer ever, or even has the potential to be. However, with a history of arm fatigue and his ability to be lights out two days a week, I believe he needs to be a closer. Additionally, I do not believe the closer role is overrated, regardless of what some stat geeks say. Everyone has a guy or guys that throw in the last inning of a close game. Everyone isn't wrong.

 

Well someone has to throw the last inning.

Well someone has to throw the last inning.

 

:ohbrother: You got me. That is 100% true.

Another guy that agrees with the "Chapman should be starting group".

 

 

 

 

David Schoenfield, ESPN:

Exactly. Chapman was only a reliever by default anyway. Not sure if the answer is (a) or (b), but you have to find out if the answer is going to be (a). The Reds are doing the smart thing here.

 

 

Because Dusty doesn't know any better. The difference between Mariano Rivera and all the different closers the Pirates have used through the years? About two wins a year. And like you said, the Reds have other good options.

Yes I tend to agree that the closer is a bit overated. I look at 2 things when looking at the Reds situation though. Is there a need for another starter? No. Is there any evidence that Chapman can start in the Majors? No.

 

But I also look at the bullpen as a whole. I'd rather have Chapman in the bullpen making it really deep than him being in the rotation. It's not about him being a closer at all.

Yes I tend to agree that the closer is a bit overated. I look at 2 things when looking at the Reds situation though. Is there a need for another starter? No. Is there any evidence that Chapman can start in the Majors? No.

 

But I also look at the bullpen as a whole. I'd rather have Chapman in the bullpen making it really deep than him being in the rotation. It's not about him being a closer at all.

What evidence says he can't start? I think they could use another starter.

What evidence says he can't start? I think they could use another starter.

 

The fact that he hasn't ever started a major league game, only has 3 pitches, is not very consistent with pitches, hasn't thrown hard all spring, arm fatigue when he was a reliever, he also seems like a Mental Midget like Volquez.

 

Also the Reds are fine pitching wise. I think 90% of MLB teams would love to have the rotation of Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Arroyo, Leake. And I would guarantee almost every single team would love to have that rotation with the bullpen currently assembled. The only need they ever had was a new lead-off hitter, and they got one.

The fact that he hasn't ever started a major league game, only has 3 pitches, is not very consistent with pitches, hasn't thrown hard all spring, arm fatigue when he was a reliever, he also seems like a Mental Midget like Volquez.

 

Also the Reds are fine pitching wise. I think 90% of MLB teams would love to have the rotation of Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Arroyo, Leake. And I would guarantee almost every single team would love to have that rotation with the bullpen currently assembled. The only need they ever had was a new lead-off hitter, and they got one.

 

I don't know many starting pitchers that throw more than 3 pitches successfully. He hasn't started a major league game because of injuries. He was our best starter last spring and if Madson didn't get hurt he would have been in the rotation. He has been pretty good again this spring starting.

I would like to hear your ranking of the most important players/roles on a typical baseball team. Also, what players/roles are the most easily replaced?

 

So I started thinking about how I would rank the spots on a pitching staff. Here is how I would rank the roles on a pitching staff, in order of importance:

 

Ace

2nd starter

3rd starter

Closer

4th starter

Set-up man

5th starter

Lefty specialist

Middle reliever

Long reliever

 

I think the first two spots are locked. I do think closer can creep to your third most important guy, but I think he is dependent on others to get his opportunity, so unless he is Mo or Hoffman or Gagne the year he won the Cy Young, your 3rd starter is probably more important. I also think your set-up guy can overtake your 4th starter, especially come playoff time when rotations shorten. For instance, I think the 96 Yankees would say Mo, who was lights out as a two inning set-up guy shortening the game with Wetteland closing, was more important than Kenny Rogers even though Rogers won 12 games as a starter. JMO.

So I started thinking about how I would rank the spots on a pitching staff. Here is how I would rank the roles on a pitching staff, in order of importance:

 

Ace

2nd starter

3rd starter

Closer

4th starter

Set-up man

5th starter

Lefty specialist

Middle reliever

Long reliever

 

I think the first two spots are locked. I do think closer can creep to your third most important guy, but I think he is dependent on others to get his opportunity, so unless he is Mo or Hoffman or Gagne the year he won the Cy Young, your 3rd starter is probably more important. I also think your set-up guy can overtake your 4th starter, especially come playoff time when rotations shorten. For instance, I think the 96 Yankees would say Mo, who was lights out as a two inning set-up guy shortening the game with Wetteland closing, was more important than Kenny Rogers even though Rogers won 12 games as a starter. JMO.

 

I agree with that list except I would put 4th starter above closer.