Forgot about Duffy-say what you will but he could coach too. Not the top guy ever in the state, but you have to say he was successful wherever he went...

So 10 years from now when Mueller has another 6-7 Titles where will we be? Would Smith have been able to de-thrown Mueller the last couple years? Let's be honest here, Larry French isn't a pushover.

Garnis Martin at Bardstown

Ed Miracle at Lynch

It must be Beatty. Trinity's most recent title was earned in 1994 when Mr. Beatty arrived in 2001. He capitalized on a system in place that was geared towards success. The fact he has led the Shamrocks to domination of 4A/6A and the mythical national championship speaks volumes about his drive and his ability to maintain his staff. The revamped Marshall Stadium may have been delayed for years if not for the achievements under Mr. Beatty's reign. Of course, the Marshall family's contributions were paramount to the completion of this project as well as the 1999 opening of the Marshall Center(weight training facility).

If state titles is the only way to be great coach then there are plenty of good men that will never be great.

 

Coaching high school can't be measured by your wins. To many other things involved

I think another thing to consider when looking at this is how many times has the coach in question has been knocked out of the playoffs by the team that did not win state?

 

quickslick, any chance you can do this for Coach Yeagle?

 

I wonder on Mueller and Beatty too?

If state titles is the only way to be great coach then there are plenty of good men that will never be great.

 

Coaching high school can't be measured by your wins. To many other things involved

 

 

I agree. I was typing something similar when my browser crashed.

 

For example, I believe Homer Rice had a huge impact on football in NKY.

 

But I will put my "homer" statement out there and say by the time DM is done, he will be one of the greatest if not the greatest of all time.

Actually he did inherit a state championship roster winning four straight.

lol, you know what I meant.

 

It wasn't as if he took over a team that had just won several titles.

lol, you know what I meant.

 

It wasn't as if he took over a team that had just won several titles.

 

I agree he took the program to the next level.

Great thread, Guru. Awesome topic and glad I could help. I think within the "Greatest of All-Time", there are a few areas where it could be broken down. Here is how I would classify them.

 

1) Best over a long period of time at one school?

2) Best over a long period of time at multiple schools?

3) Best 10 Year span

4) Best in terms of total # of Titles.

 

Best over a long period of time at one school?

1) I think you have to go with Sam Harp, Mike Holcomb & Bill Schneider. These are three guys who have spent almost close to 30 years or more at their respective school, and not only are they on the All Time Wins list, but they have won MULTIPLE titles at their school. I think Holcomb and Schneider exceeded 30 years & Harp was at Danville for 25.

 

Best over a long period of time at multiple schools?

2) I personally don't know how this can't be Joe Jaggers and Dudley Hilton. 5 State Titles in all, and multiple titles in two places. Like I pointed out in my previous post, not only did Jaggers' win titles at Trigg County and Fort Knox, but neither school won a title before he got there and they haven't since he left. And, if not for Trinity and X, he probably wins two at North Hardin, but they have failed to return to the state semis since he left.

 

Dudley Hilton is in this same category. He has won 3 in all. Two at Bell and one at Bourbon. Most forget about that magical '97 run he lead Bourbon, too. Talk about "worst to first" in just ONE year; this was it. I'll be honest, it's guys like this that get my vote for the top overall (add Chuck Smith in here, even though French has won since Smith resigned). Guys that go to places who never won before, and haven't after their departure? Something right is being done and they are the main cause for it.

 

I also think you have to throw Tom Duffy in this discussion. Like him or not, the man won. He brought home hardware at Danville and Highlands. He also took Henderson County to a couple state semis. To the best of my memory, I don't think Henderson had ever been to a state semi before Duffy.

 

Randy Reese, also. I know he won titles at Ludlow and Paris. Was there a 3rd school where he won a title?

 

Best 10 year (or up it to 15-20 for all I care)

3) Smith, Yeagle, Beatty. Case closed there. Who is the best amongst, those? That can be argued 24/7/365. All 3 places were/are different.

 

Best in terms of Titles won?

4) Beatty, Mueller, Harp, Yeagle, Jaggers, Smith. Those are all of the guys with 5 or more Titles, I think?

 

 

...just some other angles to look at when thinking about this. Great topic.

I realize he did not coach in Kentucky for as long as some other coaching greats and thus did not rack up the stats/wins, but Highlands' Homer Rice would get my vote. It was during his days as Highlands' head coach that he worked on developing the triple option, and he is widely considered to be someone who has had a major impact of football, not just in Kentucky but nationally. He has probably had more of an impact on Highlands' program being what it has been for the past 50+ years than anyone else. Also, when you consider all that he accomplished post-Highlands (college head coaching jobs, an NFL head coaching job and college athletic director jobs), his resume is quite remarkable.

Incorrect.....

 

13 title appearances 95,96,98,99,00,03,04,07,08,09,10,11,12

11 titles 96,98,99,00,04,07,08,09,10,11,12......

 

Also he arrived in 1994 for those who are counting.

 

Very impressive!

 

 

You obviously didn't read the post. I pointed out that in comparing Chuck and Dale it was difficult on many levels. Most notably that Chuck Smith only had 13 seasons. That's the premise.

 

If you want to change to look at career, fine but note that it isn't apples to apples that way. And if 1994 is when he arrived then you can take away the 2007 season I listed and that state title and 15-0 record and replace it with whatever his record in '94 was.

I think another thing to consider when looking at this is how many times has the coach in question has been knocked out of the playoffs by the team that did not win state?

 

quickslick, any chance you can do this for Coach Yeagle?

 

I wonder on Mueller and Beatty too?

 

For Chuck Smith: he was defeated by the eventual State Champ in -

 

2004 Highlands

1997 Bourbon County

1996 Breathitt County

1994 Danville

 

That would be four times they were defeated by the State Champ. Of those times '94 Danville was clearly better, '96 Breathitt only won 12-7 at Breathitt, '97 Bourbon beat the Rebels after Boyle had defeated them earlier in the season, '04 HHS chalked up their 2nd win that season over Boyle.

 

So that is 6 Finals Appearances, 5 State Titles, and 4 times losing to eventual State Champion in the playoffs.

Isn't there only 1 coach in Highlands history that did not win a State Title? I would assume, this is similar with Trinity.

 

IMO, there are way more great coaches than there are great jobs. I think Dale is a great coach. He has turned Highlands into a machine and has taken the Highlands program to sights unseen. Prior to that, he was 11-19 in 3 years at Sycamore. Was he not a great coach at Sycamore?

 

I think Chuck Smith is a great coach. He was very successful at Boyle County and he created a tradition of excellence at Boyle County. Boyle County dropped off after Chuck Smith left. Larry French did not win a title until he got to Boyle County. Without Chuck Smith turning Boyle County into a traditional power, French would most likely have not won a title at Boyle County.

 

Mike Yeagle was also a great coach. He took Beechwood to unbelievable heights during the 90's. He also did this in the old 1A when you had to beat more that 32 teams. Since he left, they have struggled to win titles. Still a good program, but not Mike Yeagle good.

 

Louisville Central had ZERO state titles until 6 classes came about. Scroggins is a good coach, but if there is still a 4 class system, Louisville Central would most likely still have ZERO state titles. Would he still be considered good without those titles? I sure hope so.

 

If you put a great Coach in a bad program, they can over time develop a good program. Rarely do they succeed like Chuck Smith at Boyle County. You put a good coach in a traditional power like Trinity or Highlands, they are going to win titles.

 

All of the guys listed are excellent coaches. Most of them also have GREAT jobs that would make many, many coaches in the state of Kentucky GREAT coaches.

I should have added Total Wins in my previous post.

 

Phillip Haywood.

 

To be honest, he is one of the greatest of all time no matter what. Like many in this thread, he's an even better man than coach.