To me, it puts more emphasis on winning a tournament. I thought freshman ball was about developing players. I would never even think of bringing say, a Ben Weyer down to play the frosh tournament. What do you gain and what is he gaining?

 

I truly believe that there is a mental edge that comes with winning tournaments. If a group win as Freshmen, no matter if a kid comes down or not, it can only positively reinforce confidence. The team knows what it takes to win. It doesn't automatically transfer over to great things on the varsity level as the group progresses, but it can't hurt.

Is it the Freshman TEAM Tourney or the Freshman Tourney?

If it's the Freshman Team tourney, then it is for the kids who have played on the freshman team.

If it's a Freshman tourney, then call in all frosh from JV and Varsity too. And while we are at it, let's have a senior tourney, and a junior tourney, and a sophomore tourney. :lol:

 

It does seem that everyone does get a trophy these days...

RCC9, when I started this I mentioned that I have seen this in other sports for years. I know your softball team at HHS sometimes has low numbers. How will you handle this? IMO as a coach, girls that have been on freshman team all year and never moved up should play, period. If you need to fill in so be it but never take time away from a girl that has earned time all year by playing and practicing for the freshman coach. I think anyone "trophy hunting" is way off base with what a freshman team is about. I have also seen teams with small numbers that would never do this and my hat goes off to those program that do it Right. They take their lose with the girls they played with all year and thats what they should do.

 

What it comes down to, is it just wasn't there night on the floor. Lose with class and win with respect. No excuse ! I've seen the same girls play all year with that team and they've come along way. Its hard when you only have 6 or 7 girls and teams want to run you up and down the floor. Since X-mas and the end of the middle school season, coaches have brought up girls to fill the bench . Its makes a big difference when your not dead dog tired by the end of the game. So you can run them and press them the same as they do you. Is this truely about girls moving up or down? Or just I want my team to get an easy win. I'm starting to wonder !:ohbrother:

RCC9, when I started this I mentioned that I have seen this in other sports for years. I know your softball team at HHS sometimes has low numbers. How will you handle this? IMO as a coach, girls that have been on freshman team all year and never moved up should play, period. If you need to fill in so be it but never take time away from a girl that has earned time all year by playing and practicing for the freshman coach. I think anyone "trophy hunting" is way off base with what a freshman team is about. I have also seen teams with small numbers that would never do this and my hat goes off to those program that do it Right. They take their lose with the girls they played with all year and thats what they should do.

 

I think you probably know by my response, but I'll give you my feeling about it in softball.

 

We are actually up in numbers this year. We have had 55 girls sign up so far. That doesn't mean they will all come to tryouts. However, out of those 55, 36 are middle schoolers! We have no seniors (as of now), we will end up with maybe 3 juniors and a hand full of sophomores and freshman. That will be our varsity team. We have 3 very good freshman! Two of which would hurt someone playing in a freshman tournament. I'm not kidding. The other is more defensive minded right now, but still hits it hard. I would NEVER play them down. I would have a very hard time playing them in a JV game.

 

Now softball is a little different because of the specific spots require different skill sets. For instance, one of the very good freshman that absolutely kills the ball is trying to pick up pitching. In this instance, I would potentially let her play in the varsity game, then let her possibly pitch in the JV game (not sure she has ever pitched in a game before). I wouldn't let her hit. One because she would still probably hurt someone, she's not going to get anything out of hitting JV pitching and the most important one is that I can let another kid get at bats that is needed. I still have a problem with it in softball unless it's clearly trying to learn another skill. If you have a kid that plays short on the varsity team and then for the JV team, it falls into the same category for me. Even if she moved to second! If she moves to the outfield or pitches or catches, it would be a little different.

 

My Freshman team will be made up primarily 6th graders with a few 7th. My JV team will be mostly 7th and 8th graders. In their leagues and tournaments, I would never move a kid down unless we had kids out with illness or injury. And if time allowed and numbers permitted, I'd prefer to move a kid up and give them an opportunity. I don't really look at grades at all. I look at skill level. I also look at once those teams are established, I should have very minimal movement between them. I want them to become a team. Learn how to overcome things as a team. Learn what it means to "bear down and dig in" with what you have. Not save them by bringing down a couple studs when one game is a little more meaningful than an other!

And if time allowed and numbers permitted, I'd prefer to move a kid up and give them an opportunity. I don't really look at grades at all. I look at skill level.

 

This is a great point RCC9 , If time is allowed and numbers permitted in all sports move them up . That just builds your team for the future , look at the skill level of the players. Just because your in middle school, doesn't mean your slower or smaller than the freshman girls. Or you can't play with them . From what I've seen these girls they moved up got the same skills most Jv and Varsity players have. The Varsity team is getting on a roll, they can't afford to move anyone back this time of the year just to win a freshman tournament. From last year to this year they've taken a big step in the right direction , why would they want to go backwards. They have great talent in the pipeline moving up , not down!

News Flash

 

All this discussion and coaches will continue to do what they have always done. Whatever they want within the written rules. And it isn't about to change. Kids will continue to be moved down and parents will continue to cry foul. It is what it is. BTW, how many can tell me the last three Freshman champs? Last two? Last years?

 

Coaches have their reasons, some are valid and some are selfish but it is theirs to control, however they do it.

 

PS, the thing that bothers me more is the head varsity coach who sits on the Frosh bench during this tourney to offer advice and suggestions, its always the same coach who drops players down. Now that is fun to watch as the team loses its identity with two coaches barking directions. In the end it is all good, because it is part of a total sport that we all love.

News Flash

 

All this discussion and coaches will continue to do what they have always done. Whatever they want within the written rules. And it isn't about to change. Kids will continue to be moved down and parents will continue to cry foul. It is what it is. BTW, how many can tell me the last three Freshman champs? Last two? Last years?

 

Coaches have their reasons, some are valid and some are selfish but it is theirs to control, however they do it.

 

PS, the thing that bothers me more is the head varsity coach who sits on the Frosh bench during this tourney to offer advice and suggestions, its always the same coach who drops players down. Now that is fun to watch as the team loses its identity with two coaches barking directions. In the end it is all good, because it is part of a total sport that we all love.

 

Well said!!

A whole different way to look at it....

Has anyone ever asked that the freshman players think? It seems like it is bothersome to parents. But maybe the freshman team would like to have their really good peer/classmate play with them so they have a better chance at winning?

Edited February 5, 201313 yr by hoops5

A whole different way to look at it....

Has anyone ever asked that the freshman players think? It seems like it is bothersome to parents. But maybe the freshman team would like to have their really good peer/classmate play with them so they have a better chance at winning?

 

I was thinking the same thing. I would bet that the players are more receptive than the parents.

I was thinking the same thing. I would bet that the players are more receptive than the parents.

 

I will have to disagree. I coach AAU and have players that it happened to last year. They left the gym almost in tears and guess what, one of them is not playing this year. And she started on that freshman team as an 8th grader at a big school, until of course they brought down the girls that were playing up. I'm not a parent of anyone that it happened to. I was a coach of two kids that it happened to last year and the kids were upset. In fact I think the team was undefeated until the freshman tournament and they still brought girls down. They were both starters and both lost their spot in the tournament.

 

Maybe some girls don't care. But these two did for sure.

 

As for who won the last two freshman tourneys...cooper 2 years ago and HHS last year.

I will have to disagree. I coach AAU and have players that it happened to last year. They left the gym almost in tears and guess what, one of them is not playing this year. And she started on that freshman team as an 8th grader at a big school, until of course they brought down the girls that were playing up. I'm not a parent of anyone that it happened to. I was a coach of two kids that it happened to last year and the kids were upset. In fact I think the team was undefeated until the freshman tournament and they still brought girls down. They were both starters and both lost their spot in the tournament.

 

Maybe some girls don't care. But these two did for sure.

 

As for who won the last two freshman tourneys...cooper 2 years ago and HHS last year.

 

I'm just curious, but did they give out 9th place trophies too?:lol:

News Flash

 

All this discussion and coaches will continue to do what they have always done. Whatever they want within the written rules. And it isn't about to change. Kids will continue to be moved down and parents will continue to cry foul. It is what it is. BTW, how many can tell me the last three Freshman champs? Last two? Last years?

 

Coaches have their reasons, some are valid and some are selfish but it is theirs to control, however they do it.

 

PS, the thing that bothers me more is the head varsity coach who sits on the Frosh bench during this tourney to offer advice and suggestions, its always the same coach who drops players down. Now that is fun to watch as the team loses its identity with two coaches barking directions. In the end it is all good, because it is part of a total sport that we all love.

 

Great point! I hate when varsity coaches do that......

I'm just curious, but did they give out 9th place trophies too?:lol:

 

Not sure what you mean there, Sparky.

This could easily be fixed by the tournament organizers choosing one option or the other:

 

A.). This tournament is for ANY freshmen or younger players in your program regardless of their experience

 

Or

 

B.). This tournament is meant for players who played on the freshmen team throughout the season

 

Just make a rule. Not that hard.

So ultimately what we are trying to avoid is the best team winning? This must stem from the fact that if school A brings down their best freshman then they are actually better than school B who beat them earlier when they were missing their best. If I were school B, I would be happy with the earlier win and realize that we have some work to do. After all, they are only freshman...