I've also seen this happen at the JV level with Juniors playing down in tourney's or in rival games. I think it's a slap in the face of the other kids that lose their PT in these situations. It might even cost you a potentially good player in the future when they decide to hang it up after their sophomore year.

1. Any player that has played varsity minutes is not allowed to play in the freshman tournament.

 

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That kills small schools. There are schools out there putting middle schoolers on varsity and they're getting minutes. That shouldn't keep them from playing some freshman games too. They need court time and playing a few minutes of varsity shouldn't disqualify you from playing with people your own age.

Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post

1. Any player that has played varsity minutes is not allowed to play in the freshman tournament.

 

 

That kills small schools. There are schools out there putting middle schoolers on varsity and they're getting minutes. That shouldn't keep them from playing some freshman games too. They need court time and playing a few minutes of varsity shouldn't disqualify you from playing with people your own age.

 

Great point scon 36....Also, a rule like that makes a real problem for covering temporary injuries. EXAMPLE: A normal varsity player has a ankle sprain and out for two games and another is sick, a freshmen is used to cover some minutes in varsity for a couple of games until the other two get healthy. The result is the freshmen now becomes ineligible for freshmen tournament. A rule backfires in this very common situation and becomes a penalty to those it was never intended to effect.

 

Sure, it is somewhat common for freshmen that played mostly or all JV to still play in the freshmen tournament, HOWEVER, Freshmen that play regular significant varsity minutes and still play in the freshmen tournament is really, very rare. Therefore, there is no need for a "freshmen that played varsity so you can't play freshmen" rule. Why make a rule to stop a very rare occurrence at the expense of causing a bigger potential problem for any program that isn't that deep.

 

The original post that started this thread was referring to JV players that played in the freshmen tournament. That is very different than regular varsity players that played in the freshmen tournament.

The only rule I like which restricts a player in High School is the one from Ohio where a player can not play more than 6 quarters in one night. Restricting a freshman from playing in the freshmen tourney is not right. Put your best freshmen and younger on the floor and see who has the best team. As a coach I wouldn't do it but if the coach wants to, go ahead.

 

I have seen varsity freshmen play in these games in the past and they seem to hate it. Usually ends in a Loss.

The only rule I like which restricts a player in High School is the one from Ohio where a player can not play more than 6 quarters in one night. Restricting a freshman from playing in the freshmen tourney is not right. Put your best freshmen and younger on the floor and see who has the best team. As a coach I wouldn't do it but if the coach wants to, go ahead.

 

I have seen varsity freshmen play in these games in the past and they seem to hate it. Usually ends in a Loss.

 

Agree with this 100%, and before one of you use the small school bit, it seems to work in Ohio and other HSAA without problems!

 

Some seem to forget (mostly the mommies and daddies), that HS sports are suppose to be for the all the kids and just not the super studs!

 

At the frosh level, it shouldn't always be about winning and losing but in participating in the sport(s).

That kills small schools. There are schools out there putting middle schoolers on varsity and they're getting minutes. That shouldn't keep them from playing some freshman games too. They need court time and playing a few minutes of varsity shouldn't disqualify you from playing with people your own age.

 

Great point scon 36....Also, a rule like that makes a real problem for covering temporary injuries. EXAMPLE: A normal varsity player has a ankle sprain and out for two games and another is sick, a freshmen is used to cover some minutes in varsity for a couple of games until the other two get healthy. The result is the freshmen now becomes ineligible for freshmen tournament. A rule backfires in this very common situation and becomes a penalty to those it was never intended to effect.

 

Sure, it is somewhat common for freshmen that played mostly or all JV to still play in the freshmen tournament, HOWEVER, Freshmen that play regular significant varsity minutes and still play in the freshmen tournament is really, very rare. Therefore, there is no need for a "freshmen that played varsity so you can't play freshmen" rule. Why make a rule to stop a very rare occurrence at the expense of causing a bigger potential problem for any program that isn't that deep.

 

The original post that started this thread was referring to JV players that played in the freshmen tournament. That is very different than regular varsity players that played in the freshmen tournament.

 

More good points. I am a fan of one of those small schools that have roster challenges. So maybe you can't do a hard and fast one varsity minute exclusion. Maybe you put a number of quarters on that one also. I am trying to come up with guidelines that will solve the problem.

More good points. I am a fan of one of those small schools that have roster challenges. So maybe you can't do a hard and fast one varsity minute exclusion. Maybe you put a number of quarters on that one also. I am trying to come up with guidelines that will solve the problem.

 

I really do appreciate that. This is definitely a hard one. Seems to be no "one size fits all" rule.

 

I can see the limiting the quarters thing, but even still it can miss the mark. Some schools have to let the same group that play freshmen, also play jv. If not, then the players that are older than freshmen, that do not play much varsity, cannot play jv. There would not be enough in and of themselves to field a jv team, without the freshmen playing jv also.

 

If we make a rule, I think it should be that no kid can play if their parent whines and complains. Dang...second thought that is a bad one too. Then the child has to suffer because of mom/dad.

 

I hate rules....not really, just some of them.

He means if they moved their freshman down. They have 3 close to 6'ft freshman skilled freshman, plus a nice team already. They would be good. It would fun to see, but if brossart played, camp co moved theirs down and one key player wasn't out for the season, the best freshman teams would be Conner, HHS, Ryle, CC, brossart, and SK, and Walton. And Newport would be decent. Conner, HHS, Ryle and brossart would be your top 4.

 

That may be true what your saying on teams, but if we're talking about that night, The team that won has had the same team playing together all year, 6 or 7 girls. Now they did move up middle school girls to fill in on the bench. How do we mistake middle school girls for Jv / Varsity players? I got see both games and both could have went either way.

I really do appreciate that. This is definitely a hard one. Seems to be no "one size fits all" rule.

 

I can see the limiting the quarters thing, but even still it can miss the mark. Some schools have to let the same group that play freshmen, also play jv. If not, then the players that are older than freshmen, that do not play much varsity, cannot play jv. There would not be enough in and of themselves to field a jv team, without the freshmen playing jv also.

 

If we make a rule, I think it should be that no kid can play if their parent whines and complains. Dang...second thought that is a bad one too. Then the child has to suffer because of mom/dad.

 

I hate rules....not really, just some of them.

 

I don't think just playing JV should knock you out of the freshman tournament, especially on the girls side. Honestly, I don't have a problem with a freshman who played the entire season on JV playing in the freshman tournament but it is clear a lot of people do. That is why I suggested having a freshman playing time requirement. That way no one who loses playing time in the tournament to a player coming down is blind sided. They will have seen the JV freshman play on the freshman team and will know that the coaches want her to be eligible for the freshman tournament.

That kills small schools. There are schools out there putting middle schoolers on varsity and they're getting minutes. That shouldn't keep them from playing some freshman games too. They need court time and playing a few minutes of varsity shouldn't disqualify you from playing with people your own age.

 

No matter whether a big or small school team, if you have a freshmen team & have freshmen playing varsity only all yeàr never having played on the freshmen team all year, you shouldn't be able to play down...period!! We aren't talking about kids that play freshmen & jv/v, too...just those that haven't played freshmen all year!!

No matter whether a big or small school team, if you have a freshmen team & have freshmen playing varsity only all yeàr never having played on the freshmen team all year, you shouldn't be able to play down...period!! We aren't talking about kids that play freshmen & jv/v, too...just those that haven't played freshmen all year!!

 

I am not saying I agree or disagree with you. I am saying that I don't see this happen like some have stated on this thread and you have stated above. I have stated in a couple post in this thread that it is very rare for a freshmen that plays a regular significant role on varsity only during the season then go down and play in the freshmen tournament. Am I wrong? Is this not as rare as I think? If so, please educate me. Give me some examples. What schools have done this? I honestly have not seen that anywhere. Again, I have seen this done with JV to freshmen, but not varsrity to freshmen.

If coaches are pressing up 20 with a minute left in the game, you can be damn sure they'll do anything to win. If it means dropping a player down to win a meaningless tournament, they'll do it.

I don't think just playing JV should knock you out of the freshman tournament, especially on the girls side. Honestly, I don't have a problem with a freshman who played the entire season on JV playing in the freshman tournament but it is clear a lot of people do. That is why I suggested having a freshman playing time requirement. That way no one who loses playing time in the tournament to a player coming down is blind sided. They will have seen the JV freshman play on the freshman team and will know that the coaches want her to be eligible for the freshman tournament.

 

Got it. I don't have a problem with it either. As you can probably tell, I would hate to see any regulation and policy in this area. I like to choose on the side of open competition. If handled correctly, it can be a great motivator. Kids that don't play as much don't need a rule to protect them and even hinder them from having to get better, they need someone to challenge them and help them take the hard road of working to get better. If they are not happy with their playing time, get in a gym, do the work in the summer to get better. Honestly ask the coach what they need to do to improve, then work on that 5 days a week. Then they can be the one that this conversation is about. Unfortunately, this can't happen because its always the schools fault, or the coaches fault or something else and the player never is honest with what they need to do. They take the easy road and complain.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with you. I am saying that I don't see this happen like some have stated on this thread and you have stated above. I have stated in a couple post in this thread that it is very rare for a freshmen that plays a regular significant role on varsity only during the season then go down and play in the freshmen tournament. Am I wrong? Is this not as rare as I think? If so, please educate me. Give me some examples. What schools have done this? I honestly have not seen that anywhere. Again, I have seen this done with JV to freshmen, but not varsrity to freshmen.

 

You are right in that it is very rare!! Apparently a couple of the teams that played Friday night (1st round of Frosh tourney) had players on team that did not play freshman game all season because they were playing jv/v only! A similar thing happened last year during season when Newport played 2 8th graders in Varsity games then tried to*pull them down to play in 8th grade tourney. It wasn't a big deal for teams they were playing against, but it was a big deal to those kids that had played all season & lost playing time in tourney they worked all season for!!! It's not against the rules, but to me it shows poor sportsmanship!!! To those who drop to that level...just remember what they say about karma!!!

You are right in that it is very rare!! Apparently a couple of the teams that played Friday night (1st round of Frosh tourney) had players on team that did not play freshman game all season because they were playing jv/v only! A similar thing happened last year during season when Newport played 2 8th graders in Varsity games then tried to*pull them down to play in 8th grade tourney. It wasn't a big deal for teams they were playing against, but it was a big deal to those kids that had played all season & lost playing time in tourney they worked all season for!!! It's not against the rules, but to me it shows poor sportsmanship!!! To those who drop to that level...just remember what they say about karma!!![

 

The only way to really do it is to only have kids that have logged a certain amount of freshman minutes/qtrs be eligible. I would make it pretty significant too. 50% at the min. If a kid has put their time in doing double duty, then he is considered eligible and part of that team. Even if you are a JV player and you don't log the minute/qtrs, you are not eligible. If you haven't played significant minutes all season and show up at the freshman tournament, you, your coach and your program are considered "trophy hunters" in my book and that accomplishes nothing. If any of you can tell me there are no negatives to it, I'll listen. But there are way less negatives to only having the kids that played there all year finish the year.