Beechwoodfan

Guru, we do not have the power to stop an officer from signing a hold. I have however, I have on occasion asked an officer not to sign a hold, usually when I know the patient is a “frequent flyer” and is just looking for a bed for the night. Sometimes they are ok with that. The law says that once a patient is on our property, and wants to be seen, we have to do it. It’s a good law, but also allows all kinds of abuses of the system. I feel bad for your experiences. I am pretty sure I work in a different state than you did, so the laws are different. I like the way we handle things way more. Overall, I really love and respect the officers we come into contact with. I only see a small bit of what they have to deal with on a daily basis.

I totally get what you are saying, and I certainly didn’t mean to malign the police. I think most police officers are great and handle our mentally ill patients well. I totally understand that their hands are tied once someone says they are suicidal and have no problem with that. The officers who bring our patients in are in and out in 5 minutes. They sign the psych hold and are gone. There is no waiting around. I think our hospital has a very efficient way of doing intake from them. We have our own security officers who help us with restraints. We do, however, often get patients who are brought in after committing a crime. They may have assaulted someone, broken into a home, created some disturbance, destroyed property, set fires, or get caught driving under the influence. It frustrates me that this happens on daily basis and, more often than not, no charges are ever filed because they are “mentally ill.” I am not solely blaming the police because they know how it will play out. Why bother when they know that prosecution will likely never happen? Often, their victims don’t want to press charges either. In all fairness, we do occasionally get drunks, who never claim to be mentally ill, brought in by the police. They sign the psych holds saying that they are unable to care for themselves. I once had an officer bring a man in who just got off the Greyhound and told the officer he was homeless. The officer thought we would find him a place to live. Admittedly, these kind of incidents are a small percentage of cases, but they do occur. As far as my personal assault. The officer adamantly refused to press charges. The head of my department got involved trying to get him to arrest this guy, but he refused. I did have to drive to the police department, with a black eye to press charges. The detective on my case was really nice, but pretty much told me how it would play out and he was right. It is a federal offense to assault a health care worker, but good luck getting anyone to prosecute. I had a coworker who managed to successfully get someone to trial for assault, only to be told by a judge that getting assaulted is an unfortunate part of his job. That’s why I said there is a problem with the judicial system overall. I am certainly not saying that mentally I’ll people should all be locked up, but mental illness should not give people a free pass to break the law repeatedly with no consequences.

Well, this is right up my alley as I have worked in this field for over 20 years. I could talk all day on the problems with mental health care but will try to get it down to a few bullet points. 1) Money. Insurance companies don’t want to pay for quality mental health care. We used to be able to keep truly mentally ill people for a month to get back on their meds. They were able to take day trips before discharge so families could see how they were doing and/ or case managers could establish them in group homes or apartments. These days it’s 3 days to a week and then people are thrown back on the streets and expected to navigate a very difficult, understaffed out patient mental health system. End result is a revolving dysfunctional door of the same people coming and going which costs more in the long run IMO. 2) Abuse of the system. You would be surprised how many people want the mentally ill label so they can get a check. They show up with all kinds of made up symptoms and drain already scant resources. 3) Drug/alcohol abuse. Not a day goes by that we have 6-12 people show up in our psyc ER “ drunkacidal or drugacidal” Some are so out of it the police bring them in as psychotic or unable to care for self. Usually the police mean well, but sometimes they use us as a drunk tank so they don’t have to arrest them. Quite often drunk/ drugged homeless people will call 911 claiming to be suicidal. They are rarely mentally ill. They are just trying to find a warm bed to crash in. Amazingly, the next day, they wake up sober demanding to be discharged. It is not unusual to see the same people show up 2-3 times a week. By law, we cannot refuse to see them, and we obviously cannot put them out once they come. We do find rehab beds for those who truly want drug/alcohol care, but they have the same money problem as point #1. We occasionally force repeat offenders in rehab in an effort to stop the cycle, but forcing someone into rehab when they don’t really want it is futile. 4) The justice system. I will say that the police/judges overall mean well, but they are very reluctant to arrest or incarcerate mentally ill people. The vast majority of mentally ill people are not dangerous, but some are. Of the ones who are dangerous, most are perfectly capable of making rational decisions. They are violent because they know they can get away with it. Conversely, those who are violent, who cannot help in in the moment, should still be held responsible for their actions as well. A couple of years ago, I was punched in the face by a very manic young man. When he is on his meds, he is the nicest guy you would ever know. He just refuses to stay on his meds. I was the 4th health care worker that he assaulted in the last 2 years. I am a firm believer that patients who are known to be violent, have the responsibility to stay on medication, or suffer the consequences for their behavior when they do not. I cannot tell you how difficult the police made it for me to press charges or how reluctant the DA was to prosecute him. Ultimately, he was never arrested or prosecuted. His cycle of violence goes on. 5) Long term care. Back in the 60’s-70’s, most long term mental health facilities were shut down due to horrific abuse of patients. In a well meaning move, mentally ill people were “mainstreamed” into society. Mainstreamed is a kind way of saying that they were dumped in the streets and left to navigate an underfunded and over stretched out patient system. Some patients do quite well, but some do not. It breaks my heart to see how much some of our patients struggle to make it in the real world. They are simply too sick, regardless of whether they are on meds. I would love to see humane long term facilities come back. 6) Evil does not equate with mental illness. People who shoot up schools/grocery stores are evil. Yes, they likely have been involved in the mental health system due to past bad behaviors. I have met/interviewed a handful of truly soul less, evil people who have zero empathy for anyone. Most are a product of a terrible upbringing, but some are just born that way. There is no fixing evil. If they have the organizational skills to plan and carry out these horrific crimes, they definitely know right from wrong. They just do not care. Whew! Sorry for the length of this!

Finally! A benefit to being old!

I didn’t take it back then, but got Cincinnati, Louisville, and Lexington which is pretty accurate for a Northern Kentuckian.

Last time I drank bourbon, my future Mister left me at the side door and said “Tell your mom you had a bad cheeseburger.” She did not believe me. All bourbon is awful. The mister still likes it though.

I have watched the replay several times. It was an outstanding ride from Sonny Leon. What a great Cinderella story!

I pack my lunch every day for just that reason. I have noticed though, that my young co workers ( who never pack), ask people to Venmo money when they order for them.

My dad has been at the Atria at Highland Crossing in Ft Wright for the last 3 years, and I can’t say enough good things about them. There is also an Atria by St. Elizabeth. It is a little more expensive, because it is newer, but run by the same people. pm me if you want more information.

So, you don’t feel good about paying your loans off? You worked hard to accomplish this and yet feel students should be able to slack off and not pay what they owe?

I was still watching the Cool Ghoul then!

We’re the students defrauded in some way? We’re they lied to? Was nothing clear? Anyone who tales a loan out knows you are going to spend much more than you borrowed. As I said before, I am all for zero interest rates to help people pay, and believe future loans should be examined. As someone who worked her way through college and worked hard to pay her children's way to college, I feel insulted and disrespected. I listen every day at work to people whine about getting their loans paid off. i have paid off every debt I ever owed my entire life. Seems like the right thing to do.

Why not? I took out my first car loan…did all the math and was terrified that I couldn’t pay it off. Yet, I did…Ignorance is no excuse.

On that, we agree. My plumber of 40 plus years cannot find someone to take over his incredibly successful business. I have a flooring guy, whose business is run by his brothers and sisters. None of their college educated children are interested in the business. In the meantime, the family ( run by siblings over 60) have more business than they can handle.

So, I should have sent my child to Harvard, instead of UK and had them take a loan out ( keep in mind I actually had 1 child that could have been accepted)? That loan should be forgiven?

$1200 and I made $4.85 an hour at my first job, and we bought our first house with an %18 interest rate. It’s all relative. Don’t commit to a loan you cannot pay. Quite frankly, I think a 4 year degree isn’t worth the money, unless you have a specific career goal in mind. Ever try to find a reliable carpenter lately?

I see a lot on TV lately about forgiving student loans. Maybe I am in the minority, but I am against it. When I was young, my parents could not afford much, so I went to a local college and worked. Other kids who could not afford college went to vocational school (and most of them did better financially in life than those that went to college). The mister and I started saving when our kids were born for their college, and we were fortunate enough to afford the pay for their college when the time came, but it did take some sacrifice on our part to make it happen. I was raised to believe you should live within your means and not take on debt you cannot pay off. It bothers me that people have taken on debt that will simply be erased. What happened to personal responsibility? What is the reward for those of us who went to college and worked our way through? I have no problem with zero interest rates to help people pay off their college loans, but firmly believe they should be responsible for paying them.

I saw in the Cincinnati Enquirer today that 56% of Americans polled would like to see masks on airplanes enforced. Hard to believe. Have we become that “cootie fearful?” I have flown quite a bit in the last couple of years. Of course, there are always one or two passengers who constantly disinfect themselves and their areas on the plane, but I would hope most people are returning to normal.

So, did he decide that it is safer to say he was suicidal and maybe get a better cell? We get prisoners released from jail quite frequently for evaluation of suicidal ideation. Most guys know that in jail, if you claim to be suicidal then you get your own cell, and more frequent checks. Hence, they claim to be suicidal when they are not. At least that is how it works in the city/county that I work in.

Good to see that the Russian people are protesting. Unfortunately, they seem to be getting arrested rather quickly. I am so impressed by the courage of the Ukrainian people.

I know someone from Taiwan. She said about half of the country doesn’t care if China takes over. I saw video of Ukrainian soldiers with only guns waiting to fire on Russian tanks. Very brave men, but very sad.

Very scary times. I have been reading quite a bit about this, and won’t pretend to be an expert, but I still cannot believe that Russia is so brazen and is getting away with this. Prayers to the people of Ukraine.

Damn!

I am not sure any trial should be televised. I think the media circus around televised trials adds stress to both sides, and may hinder due process.

I think there definitely needs to be more alternative schools. But these schools would need extra funding for counselors, security and other support staff. I think many so called “bad kids” have had it rough their whole lives.