The bottom line on stall ball is this. Sports is about competition and trying your best at all times to prove you and your team are better and more skilled than your opponent. In stall ball, one team is choosing not to compete. Call it strategy if you want but if you have your team standing still with the ball doing nothing, there is no competitive action taking place. That is why it bothers people. Stall ball is not competing.

Would like to hear your reply if Bellevue had done this. And don't tell me that would have been fine with you and you would have forced the action,etc, That would have denied your team of a chance to score 100 points which they were certainly trying to do.

 

If the HC at Bellevue felt slowing the game down would have given their team the best chance to win, I sure would have hoped they would have employed it. Obviously, they didn't. If they had, Coach Richey would have had to make the decision as to how to attack that.

 

If I know Coach Richey, I don't think she sits back if she feels she has the talent to beat you. She attacks and tries to force the action.

If it is just about teaching values then why have a regional tournament? Panda it seems to me that you don't like Highlands very much.

 

Way2, welcome to the site. Good to have new posters.

 

Don't fall into the "you don't like so and so " trap....especially with Panda.

 

He has shown no evidence to support that.

To be fair, both sides stalled.

To be fair, both sides stalled.

 

Oh, that's right.

 

So you must not like NDA very much.

The bottom line on stall ball is this. Sports is about competition and trying your best at all times to prove you and your team are better and more skilled than your opponent. In stall ball, one team is choosing not to compete. Call it strategy if you want but if you have your team standing still with the ball doing nothing, there is no competitive action taking place. That is why it bothers people. Stall ball is not competing.

 

And if the other team "walks" within a 6 feet of the player "standing still with the ball doing nothing", it's a 5 second call and a turnover.

 

Tell me again who wasn't competing?

 

I wasn't at the game, but based on what I'm reading, this wasn't the 4 corner offense that Dean Smith ran where all 5 players were handling the ball and moving. Notre Dame applied ZERO pressure. (again..only an opinion based on other posters comments)

What would be interesting is polling the players anonymously and asking "slow down game because we think it gives us our best chance to win" or "play hard the entire game and see what happens."

 

We can't poll the players but based on the obvious degree of interest and emotional responses to this longest girls basketball game thread ever, I am curious what the overall BGP crowd's take would be on this. Could a mod put up a poll along the lines of (a) agree with the game plan - great strategy as it gave team its best chance to win the game in the coach's opinion (and gave team chance to win in last two minutes of game) or (b) disagree with the game plan- stall ball strategy stinks, is "undignified" and embarrassing to the players and no longer has a place in high school basketball?

 

As for me, I am in the (a) camp and think it was a great strategy by the coach and congratulate her on trying to give her team the best chance to win the game within the rules of the game. I have frequently mentioned to a friend before this that I don't understand why more coaches of substantial underdogs don't try this or other unconventional strategies at tournament time. Back in the day (and I understand I am dating myself) this "letting the air out of the ball" game plan used to be a standard part of the strategy of the game and the fact that nobody seems to try it any more should make it even more effective (as apparently from the comments the NDA coach did not make adjustments to force the tempo of the game which is the obvious adjustement counter strategy and amazingly to me played into by having her team hold the ball while only up a relatively small margin). This strategy was good enough for Dean Smith at UNC to use for substantial periods at the end of a game when he has great players including Michael Jordan and Phil Ford. Of course, the adoption of the shot clock ended this strategy by the rules of the game at the college level but I never understood why high school coaches not subject to that limitation stopped taking advantage at least occasionally of the opportunity to level a very unlevel playing field (court). Also, interesting to me that a number of posters on her who frequently advocate ball control football to limit the favored football teams offensive possessions as the best strategy to wine in football think the same strategy destroys the "dignity" (please) of a basketball game.

 

Also, where is it written what tempo a high school basketball game must be played. The opening analyst strategy comments at about half college basketball games is that the team that controls the tempo of the game wins or one team prefers a faster (or a slower) pace and needs to try to dictate tempo. Should all teams play Paul Westhead Loyola Marymount fast? No one complains if a team chooses to full court press and pressure defense the whole game (other than still pressuring when the game has become lopsided or decided). Or does NDA regularly play the only acceptable tempo at which a girls high school game should be played.

 

It reminds me of the old George Carlin car driving bit. Anybody driving faster than me and passing me is a "maniac" and anybody driving slower than me and holding me back is an "idiot".

 

Congrats to NDA on the win and good luck in the rest of the tourney.

Sounds like this thread can be summed up by the age old question "Would you rather look pretty and lose or look ugly and win?" Or at least have a better chance to win.

What would be interesting is polling the players anonymously and asking "slow down game because we think it gives us our best chance to win" or "play hard the entire game and see what happens."

 

We can't poll the players but based on the obvious degree of interest and emotional responses to this longest girls basketball game thread ever, I am curious what the overall BGP crowd's take would be on this. Could a mod put up a poll along the lines of (a) agree with the game plan - great strategy as it gave team its best chance to win the game in the coach's opinion (and gave team chance to win in last two minutes of game) or (b) disagree with the game plan- stall ball strategy stinks, is "undignified" and embarrassing to the players and no longer has a place in high school basketball?

 

As for me, I am in the (a) camp and think it was a great strategy by the coach and congratulate her on trying to give her team the best chance to win the game within the rules of the game. I have frequently mentioned to a friend before this that I don't understand why more coaches of substantial underdogs don't try this or other unconventional strategies at tournament time. Back in the day (and I understand I am dating myself) this "letting the air out of the ball" game plan used to be a standard part of the strategy of the game and the fact that nobody seems to try it any more should make it even more effective (as apparently from the comments the NDA coach did not make adjustments to force the tempo of the game which is the obvious adjustement counter strategy and amazingly to me played into by having her team hold the ball while only up a relatively small margin). This strategy was good enough for Dean Smith at UNC to use for substantial periods at the end of a game when he has great players including Michael Jordan and Phil Ford. Of course, the adoption of the shot clock ended this strategy by the rules of the game at the college level but I never understood why high school coaches not subject to that limitation stopped taking advantage at least occasionally of the opportunity to level a very unlevel playing field (court). Also, interesting to me that a number of posters on her who frequently advocate ball control football to limit the favored football teams offensive possessions as the best strategy to wine in football think the same strategy destroys the "dignity" (please) of a basketball game.

 

Also, where is it written what tempo a high school basketball game must be played. The opening analyst strategy comments at about half college basketball games is that the team that controls the tempo of the game wins or one team prefers a faster (or a slower) pace and needs to try to dictate tempo. Should all teams play Paul Westhead Loyola Marymount fast? No one complains if a team chooses to full court press and pressure defense the whole game (other than still pressuring when the game has become lopsided or decided). Or does NDA regularly play the only acceptable tempo at which a girls high school game should be played.

 

It reminds me of the old George Carlin car driving bit. Anybody driving faster than me and passing me is a "maniac" and anybody driving slower than me and holding me back is an "idiot".

 

Congrats to NDA on the win and good luck in the rest of the tourney.

Has someone alerted The Guru we are about to go to page 10? Or should I say page X since this is so monumental and historic? This is only a hot topic until NDA's next game . . .

I'm with wanttowin !! If ND didnt like it they should of done something about it. Maybe ND coach didnt have confidence in her team to get after them man to man the whole game . Highlands didnt break any rules and she gave her girls in her mind the best opportunity to win and almost did it! Maybe Dixie should of tried it !

Here is what is so shocking to me. Folks are saying the only way for Highlands to win was to pull off this game plan. Is there really that much of a difference between the # 3 team in the region and a # 6 team?? Highlands had a winning record going into this game and had thrown up 81 points on the 20th of this month and 98 on the 22nd. I did see that Notre Dame crushed Highlands during the regular season, but still don't understand the thought process. It's just bad for the game! Bad for the girls, bad for the fans. Highlands only played in 3 games this year where the score was decided by 4 points or less. Not fun to watch! This will not help attendance to girls games just like when they tried switching the games to Friday every other month.

 

Yes I think there is a big difference. NewCath just beat them last week by 32 and Highlands only scored 27 points. And NewCath is probably rated 4th or 5th in the region. The two games that HHS scored 81 and 98 points was against Dayton and Bellevue, no disrespect to them but that doesn't mean a whole lot against two smaller schools.

So what does Jamie say at halftime when they have zero points about "adjustments" they need to make offensively?

 

"Susie, when you're holding the ball make sure you hold with two hands so it doesn't slip."

"Becky, when you're standing down low for five minutes make sure you jump occasionally to keep loose. "

I'm with wanttowin !! If ND didnt like it they should of done something about it. Maybe ND coach didnt have confidence in her team to get after them man to man the whole game . Highlands didnt break any rules and she gave her girls in her mind the best opportunity to win and almost did it! Maybe Dixie should of tried it !

 

I would question whether the NDA coach had ever 1.) even seen the stall employed or 2.) contemplated the what if scenario of how to respond to it.

 

If you are under 40, it is doubtful you have seen a team really use it.

I would question whether the NDA coach had ever 1.) even seen the stall employed or 2.) contemplated the what if scenario of how to respond to it.

 

If you are under 40, it is doubtful you have seen a team really use it.

 

Agreed on 1 and 2.

 

However, she had plenty of time to sit and think in the first half and during halftime to make adjustments. I fully realize it's easy to second-guess coaches and that's exactly what I'm doing.

 

As I always say , though , keep in mind that my next victory as a varsity coach will be my first.