When Joker was named Head Coach in Waiting, there were some posts then about his race and how that was going to play a part in his success or failure at UK. I said (and was basically called a liar for saying it, if I remember correctly) that when I looked at Joker, I didn't see a black man on the sidelines and pass any judgment at all. I looked at Joker and saw a man who I would judge only on the merits of his successes and failures. I said that I (not literally) forget he's black... And that's because race doesn't matter to me at all. My brain can't even grasp thinking that way. And I hate knowing that if I do criticize Joker I'm perceived as a racist.

 

At some point if we are ever going to truly beat racism, we're going to have to stop playing the race card any time a disagreement occurs. It's getting tired.

 

All that said, I'm not here to criticize Joker. Like swamprat, I believe that Rich Brooks jumped off before the ship sunk, and I don't blame him for doing so. Do I feel that Kentucky could be better than they are right now? Absolutely. Do I think we've hit rock bottom yet? Unfortunately I think the worst is yet to come. But do I want to fire Joker and start over? No, not yet. I think the turnover would be a big setback right now.. Worse than right now, even. I could be wrong, though. I'm wrong all the time.

 

I may change my mind next week and be in here shouting to fire Joker, but if I do it will not be because of his race. It'll be because I don't feel like he's the guy to lead UK in the future. I doubt that'll happen, though. I don't have very high expectations for UK to complete with Florida this week. I'd be extremely happy to feel competitive, though.

Your statement doesn't offend me. I just think you're wrong when your say "the majority of the Kentucky fanbase will never fully back an African-American head basketball coach or football coach." I don't deny elements of racism throughout the fanbase, but in no way, shape or form is it the majority. Even the reasonable Tubby Smith defenders will acknowledge the drop-off in the program his last couple of seasons. And as someone else stated, fans in Minnesota are currently dissatisfied with Tubby.

 

If you remember, there were numerous people calling for Rich Brooks' head and I was one of them. There were numerous people calling for Billy Gillispie's head and I was one of them. What it boils down to, as Charlie Sheen would say, is winning. Rich Brooks started winning and he was embraced. Gillispie didn't win. Then you have his off-the-court antics, both the the personal behavior and treatment of players/former players/boosters, and that spelled a quick demise for him.

 

The primary problems facing both Tubby & Joker is that they inherited their respective programs at the height of success. For 6-8 years, Tubby did a fine job maintaining that status, but then the wheels fell off. Joker, who had his fingerprints all over the football team's success, has not thus far been able to do the same.

 

What I do think is that many in the UK football fanbase have very unrealistic expectations for the program. The four-year run we had with Brooks winning four straight bowl games, in my opinion, is the ceiling for UK football over a significant span of time. Sure, we might catch lightning in a bottle and win 10 games some year, but 6-8 wins & an appearance in a nominal bowl game is success for Kentucky football on a year-in, year-out basis.

 

 

What has Joker done that leads you to believe he can get 6-8 wins anytime in the near future?

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Edited September 21, 201114 yr by PurplePride92

Billy was not a "Kentucky" guy. Billy had some issues. Joker is a Kentucky guy. Needs more time, this isn't basketball. At least wait until the season ends to start bashing your coach. If things turn around you will look foolish.

 

I hope to look foolish but a blind man can see things are going to get much worse before they get better.

What has Joker done that leads you to believe he can get 6-8 wins anytime in the near future?

 

You misunderstood me, I think. I wasn't predicting Joker would have that kind of success. He may or he may not, but I hope he does.

 

What I was talking about was the expectations UK fans should have on a year-in-year-out basis--6-8 wins. 6 being the least we should expect & 8 or perhaps 9 being the most. There will be a season or two where we fall below that, and hopefully a season where we maybe get double digits. But 6-8 wins is a much more accurate expectation.

Three words: Paging Mike Leach ...

 

This would be a train wreck in slow motion. I grew up a Texas Tech fan and shortly after he was hired people began to see this man was toxic. The fastest way for UK to become competitive in the SEC is to the way of Ga Tech. Get an offense that is so one off teams can't prepare for it. Or at least not without difficulty. If UK tries to do what everyone else is doing, they can not hope to compete.

You misunderstood me, I think. I wasn't predicting Joker would have that kind of success. He may or he may not, but I hope he does.

 

What I was talking about was the expectations UK fans should have on a year-in-year-out basis--6-8 wins. 6 being the least we should expect & 8 or perhaps 9 being the most. There will be a season or two where we fall below that, and hopefully a season where we maybe get double digits. But 6-8 wins is a much more accurate expectation.

 

 

Gotcha. Yes, that has always been my expectations as well. I have always felt 6-8 games is a reasonable expectation. I don't know when we will reach 6-8 wins though. It's not looking good right now.

 

I do think the Chicago Cubs will win the World Series before UK beats UT or UF again.

Again, I hope Joker finds a way to be successful and that we win 6-8 games/year under Joker. Based on what I have seen so far I am not confident in his ability to do so. I hope I am wrong. I created this thread so we can have somewhere to vent or recant statements in a mature fashion. I hear it's getting pretty bad in other forums.

This would be a train wreck in slow motion. I grew up a Texas Tech fan and shortly after he was hired people began to see this man was toxic. The fastest way for UK to become competitive in the SEC is to the way of Ga Tech. Get an offense that is so one off teams can't prepare for it. Or at least not without difficulty. If UK tries to do what everyone else is doing, they can not hope to compete.

Why is Leach toxic?

Rich Brooks was given more time. People seem to be a little quicker on the trigger with Joker.

 

Why does Joker deserve the same grace period? The situations are very different. The football program Joker inherited was in much better shape than the one Brooks inherited. Big difference, IMO. UK was 17-29 in the four years prior to Brooks, he was second coach in 3 years since Mumme left, and they had scholarship restrictions to deal with. UK was 30-22 in Brooks last 4, and they had scored some big wins over teams that they would have previously rarely beat...

 

Auburn, Georgia, Florida State, a win over then #1 and eventual national champion LSU, and he reversed the U of L series and put UK in the drivers seat of that rivalry

 

The program was on the upswing and coming off its most successful run in the last 30 years. Supposedly the recruiting has improved and the talent level is better. The SEC East is still down compared to what it has been in the past. I'm not calling for Joker's head 3 games into his second season, but there's no excuse for the quality of play dropping off a cliff as it seems to have done. And, he doesn't deserve the same amount of time that Brooks got.

Why does Joker deserve the same grace period? The situations are very different. The football program Joker inherited was in much better shape than the one Brooks inherited. Big difference, IMO. UK was 17-29 in the four years prior to Brooks, he was second coach in 3 years since Mumme left, and they had scholarship restrictions to deal with. UK was 30-22 in Brooks last 4, and they had scored some big wins over teams that they would have previously rarely beat...

 

Auburn, Georgia, Florida State, a win over then #1 and eventual national champion LSU, and he reversed the U of L series and put UK in the drivers seat of that rivalry

 

The program was on the upswing and coming off its most successful run in the last 30 years. Supposedly the recruiting has improved and the talent level is better. The SEC East is still down compared to what it has been in the past. I'm not calling for Joker's head 3 games into his second season, but there's no excuse for the quality of play dropping off a cliff as it seems to have done. And, he doesn't deserve the same amount of time that Brooks got.

 

 

:thumb:

 

And there you have it where we stand today.

This would be a train wreck in slow motion. I grew up a Texas Tech fan and shortly after he was hired people began to see this man was toxic. The fastest way for UK to become competitive in the SEC is to the way of Ga Tech. Get an offense that is so one off teams can't prepare for it. Or at least not without difficulty. If UK tries to do what everyone else is doing, they can not hope to compete.

Totally disagree.

Why does Joker deserve the same grace period? The situations are very different. The football program Joker inherited was in much better shape than the one Brooks inherited. Big difference, IMO. UK was 17-29 in the four years prior to Brooks, he was second coach in 3 years since Mumme left, and they had scholarship restrictions to deal with. UK was 30-22 in Brooks last 4, and they had scored some big wins over teams that they would have previously rarely beat...

 

Auburn, Georgia, Florida State, a win over then #1 and eventual national champion LSU, and he reversed the U of L series and put UK in the drivers seat of that rivalry

 

The program was on the upswing and coming off its most successful run in the last 30 years. Supposedly the recruiting has improved and the talent level is better. The SEC East is still down compared to what it has been in the past. I'm not calling for Joker's head 3 games into his second season, but there's no excuse for the quality of play dropping off a cliff as it seems to have done. And, he doesn't deserve the same amount of time that Brooks got.

:thumb:

This would be a train wreck in slow motion. I grew up a Texas Tech fan and shortly after he was hired people began to see this man was toxic. The fastest way for UK to become competitive in the SEC is to the way of Ga Tech. Get an offense that is so one off teams can't prepare for it. Or at least not without difficulty. If UK tries to do what everyone else is doing, they can not hope to compete.

 

It seemed like the overwhelming majority of Tech fans liked Leach, especially the season they had a few years ago. His offense was perfect for the Big 12 and for Tech IMO. Alot of guys to choose from in that state that can be successful in that offense. That said, I don't know that the Air Raid is the offense for UK at this time.

 

I do think the Triple Option would be an interesting approach for UK to try. Of all offenses I believe that it is the one that is the easiest to win with if you have less talent to work with. Would it work in the SEC? I don't know.

At least the 48-10 shellacking is consistent with the beatdowns from the Rich Brooks era. Too bad it is a from a Florida team not expected to win the SEC East though.