Right here....I own a small business. I have not made any money in 3 years, yet I have paid probably 15% of my GROSS sales in taxes- property and payroll....If I was making money, it would definitely be over 50%. I can't afford to keep going at the rate obviously. What is sad is that there are people who are working in the business who will lose their livelihood if I go out of business. Sounds like a good government plan to me. Also, FYI, I pay at least 7 different payroll taxes, and have to prepare the forms, etc. Anyone IMO who wants MORE goverment is either economically challenged or "feeding from the trough".

A very welcome post. I sometimes get the idea that somebody's slipping me crazy pills. The simple fact is that most folks in this forum are employees, not business owners. Just like kids with no understanding about how mom and dad pay the bills, very few truly comprehend the risks and demands of running a business... and the rewards - if there are rewards - are often long term... realized only after many years of struggle to keep things afloat, absorbing losses personally just to keep people working and pay the bills.

 

I am part of a small business that has fought and struggled to keep things afloat, only to find a need to reduce our workforce by a third over the past year. We did not want to do this, but due to the prolonged poor economy and fewer clients able to invest in our services, we had absolutely no choice. If anything, we hung in longer than we should have if we were solely focused on business decisions and what was good for our bottom line.

 

There is no magic pot of gold we have stashed away to dip into anytime we want. There is no greed or avarice... not at our level. We took a significant hit, just to keep some guys working as long as possible. We are simply trying to do our work and provide for our families. Ironically, our business is thriving in relation to our competitors, many of whom have made massive cut backs or dissolved all together.

 

Every time I hear how those who are creating jobs and paying taxes need to do more, I want to laugh, but generally I just feel more disgusted... especially when those comments come from people with zero idea about what it takes run a business.

Sorry guys, but I don't buy it on the tax side. Yes, the economy has been very tough and it has impacted business owners and employees. But as I looked through fastbreaks cited site (http://www.nowandfutures.com/taxes.html) and did a little calculating of my own, the numbers don't add up. For example, to get to the 54% individual tax rate, sales tax is cited at 9.7% as if every dollar earned is taxed at that 9.7%. That just isn't accurate and the number is inflated as most state sales tax rates are in the 5-6% range. Estate taxes included at 5%? Come on, get real. Please don't buy what those guys are feeding you on that site. As I went through the list, I was able to get to around 35% in total taxes for the typical middle class worker.

 

The fact is US tax rates are at a low rate right now - low enough that they are not an excuse for lack of performance in our economy. Best wishes to both of you for success in your businesses. No doubt small business is the life blood of our economy and I do think streamlining of regulation would help. It is a pain and a drag to have to focus time, energy and resources to keeping up with those burdens. But tax rates are way down the list of issues affecting our economy.

 

Sorry to everyone, I have jacked my own thread here. If we want further discussion of tax rates and their impact on business, please start another thread.

Government is not a business. It is an entity that was created to provide a central organization to help foster a way of life that we created with our Constitution.

If it was a business, it would not have created so many programs that rack up huge losses. It is time to realize that our government was created to protect us from our enenies, set laws to live by and foster an atmosphere for business to thrive. It was not created to redistribute wealth.

 

Proud families do ask for others to give to them. They do their best to take charge and make things better for theirselves. Of course as moral individuals there are times that friends and neighbors go help out when situations araise and help out those in need.

foster an atmosphere for business to thrive

 

I don't remember this anywhere in the Declaration, PreAmble, or the Constitution.

From the Preamble:

More Perfect Union

Establish Justice (so that businesses don't exploit the individual, nor the government exploit the individual)

Domestic Tranquility

Common Defense

General Welfare (for everyone, not just business)

Blessings of Liberty

Sorry guys, but I don't buy it on the tax side. Yes, the economy has been very tough and it has impacted business owners and employees. But as I looked through fastbreaks cited site (http://www.nowandfutures.com/taxes.html) and did a little calculating of my own, the numbers don't add up. For example, to get to the 54% individual tax rate, sales tax is cited at 9.7% as if every dollar earned is taxed at that 9.7%. That just isn't accurate and the number is inflated as most state sales tax rates are in the 5-6% range. Estate taxes included at 5%? Come on, get real. Please don't buy what those guys are feeding you on that site. As I went through the list, I was able to get to around 35% in total taxes for the typical middle class worker.

 

The fact is US tax rates are at a low rate right now - low enough that they are not an excuse for lack of performance in our economy. Best wishes to both of you for success in your businesses. No doubt small business is the life blood of our economy and I do think streamlining of regulation would help. It is a pain and a drag to have to focus time, energy and resources to keeping up with those burdens. But tax rates are way down the list of issues affecting our economy.

 

Sorry to everyone, I have jacked my own thread here. If we want further discussion of tax rates and their impact on business, please start another thread.

 

Where you live obviously impacts the rates. Someone in New York City on the top end is looking at 50% just in income taxes. Nevermind sales, use, property etc.

Where you live obviously impacts the rates. Someone in New York City on the top end is looking at 50% just in income taxes. Nevermind sales, use, property etc.

 

I still don't think you can get to 50%. New York City rates are around 3%. Add that to the top marginal rate of 36% which is probably an effective rate of 25% plus the 7% state tax and you are at 35% income tax.

I'll give the TPers credit where credit is due - they are doing what their constituents expect them to do. I may think that they're very wrongheaded (the past few years have proven to me that we can't balance the budget without at least some increase in revenue; I just don't think that slashing and burning is the be-all end-all path to budget neutrality); but they're doing what they think they were elected to do.

If one recalls the Articles of Confederation was weak and was causing economic problems in our young nation, as the central government had few powers. The weaknesses of the Articles were so great that the Articles were replaced with our Constitution giving the central government more powers in relation to taxation, trade and coining money. While is does not say directly it was to help business, all one has to do is read the history leading up to the Constitutional Convention and it is easy to see that it was to help "foster an atmosphere for business to thrive".

The Tea Party is bad for America IMO. Anything too far to the Right or Left is very dangerous to our way of life I think. If the Tea Party continues to grow, a far Left Party may emerge. I think what has made America work in the past is that even though Dems and Republicans are different, they are both very centrist in terms of the overall world. With two groups to on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum I think things will only get worse.

I'll give the TPers credit where credit is due - they are doing what their constituents expect them to do. I may think that they're very wrongheaded (the past few years have proven to me that we can't balance the budget without at least some increase in revenue; I just don't think that slashing and burning is the be-all end-all path to budget neutrality); but they're doing what they think they were elected to do.

 

Very fair post.

The Tea Party is bad for America IMO. Anything too far to the Right or Left is very dangerous to our way of life I think. If the Tea Party continues to grow, a far Left Party may emerge. I think what has made America work in the past is that even though Dems and Republicans are different, they are both very centrist in terms of the overall world. With two groups to on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum I think things will only get worse.

 

Interesting thoughts. Is it possible that the Tea Party is a response for what many think already is a move too far to the left?

If one recalls the Articles of Confederation was weak and was causing economic problems in our young nation, as the central government had few powers. The weaknesses of the Articles were so great that the Articles were replaced with our Constitution giving the central government more powers in relation to taxation, trade and coining money. While is does not say directly it was to help business, all one has to do is read the history leading up to the Constitutional Convention and it is easy to see that it was to help "foster an atmosphere for business to thrive".

 

It was weak because it could not levy taxes - it was strengthened to become able to levy taxes to pay its war debts. Why don't we levy taxes to pay the war debt currently?

It was weak because it could not levy taxes - it was strengthened to become able to levy taxes to pay its war debts. Why don't we levy taxes to pay the war debt currently?

 

One part of the problem.

Yet the central government was given certain powers and redistribution of wealth was not one of them.

It was to help create wealth, not take it from one and give it to another.

I still don't think you can get to 50%. New York City rates are around 3%. Add that to the top marginal rate of 36% which is probably an effective rate of 25% plus the 7% state tax and you are at 35% income tax.

 

Nope, waaaaay more than 35%. You get into incomes where they're blended average is just about the cap. They easisly best the 50%. Effective rate of 25%???? I see that in federal alone every year and I don't have clients who approach the really high end. You take a single person living in NYC pulling down a couple million a year and he/she can easily hit the 50% mark for income taxes. Add in all the other taxes and I hate to think what they're approaching.

Interesting thoughts. Is it possible that the Tea Party is a response for what many think already is a move too far to the left?

That was sort of my understanding and the fact the Republicans were not being "conservative" in the sense they were invoking too much government.

 

I still hold on to my theory that the Tea Party is for the most part, irrelevant, but those outside the Republican base like to make them out to be the majority. If Dems really wanted the Tea Party to go away, they would ignore them. They like the Tea Party front and center. From a campaign strategy, I cannot say I blame them.

I often refer to myself as a TPer in theory, meaning that I believe in a great number of the same principles. What I don't like is how those principles are sometimes conveyed in the public forum.