Sure we can talk about it. Let's try analogy here: You and I are looking at a car. I point out that the car has no engine. You want to talk about the wear on the tires. I see a car that will not move, you see a car that has some tread wear. Big difference. And HT this is not really directed at you, but all of the Gals apologists that just see some tire wear.

 

Trust me, I see plenty of other problems. But you better believe that I will point out a crucial call that I feel was obviously wrong. Not a Bengals apologist at all. In fact, I'm a regular at the game and have almost grown apathetic.

 

I never said the refs cost them the game, but that was a pivotal play in the game & I think the refs got the call wrong. I thought it when it happened live, and I thought it again when I saw it on replay.

On a positive note, after all of the grief we have dealt on Andre Smith (myself included) on BGP he deserves a shout out for what could have been a game saving tackle. After safety Sabby Piscitelli picked off Carson with 30 seconds left on the clock, Sabby broke to the visitor's bench side of the field. The lane to the end zone was wide open. The only Bungal with a chance to stop him was #71. Andre rolled to the sidelines and busted Sabby's chops. Maybe Andre is miscast on the O line. Andre covering kick offs??? Inserted as a DB when they go to the nickel?? Come on Marvin, think outside the box.

 

 

Please don't show us this picture again. It could make you have real nightmares. Is that some demon trying to escape from his belly?

Palmer isn't the main problem or Palmer isn't a problem at all? I mean when Sanchez and Josh Freeman are easily two or three notches above him what can you do? I think Seneca Wallace has out played him if you consider the garbage WR core he plays with. Rookie Sam Bradford has struggled less than Palmer has this season. The way I see it right now only Carolina, Oakland, Arizona, probably Cleveland, are worse at QB though I admittedly may be missing a team or a few teams. Pick machine Jay Cutler is more desireable to lead a team. If I were a Bengals fan I'd settle for Charlie Batch over CP. I would put Palmer even with guys like Matt Cassell and David Garrard right now, though CP gets to play with a deeper WR core than either player.

 

Yup. You surprised?

 

Well I admit right now it sure looks like I will be losing our avatar bet,unless something drastic happens. I admit Palmer has not played well at all, however to say basically he is the main reason for the struggles is wrong too. Everyone on that offense has done their part to make this a bad offense. I mean do you seriously believe that other QB's could come in with this same team and coaches and look as good as they do now? Peyton Manning wouldn't even look like Peyton with this team. Yes he would do better than Palmer, because Manning is one of the best all time. However even with him this offense wouldn't be to great.

 

With this team it wouldn't matter to much who is QB. These other QB's would be dealing with key drops by receivers, receivers who don't make tough catches, a line who likes to kill drives with holds and false starts, and not to mention bad at pass protections. What is one thing most of the top QB's have in common? They usually have all day to throw the ball. When do those top QB's look normal? It is when they have pressure on them, which would happen here. So yes I admit Palmer has not played well, however for people to think that all this team needs is a QB for this team to do better they would be wrong. I didn't even mention how they play in the most predictable offense in the NFL with the worst OC. There are many problems on this offense, but I admit Palmer is one of them right now. The main thing with him that has surprised me this year is his decision making. He is making some decisions he has not made since his rookie year. Its like he is trying to hard now to do something, instead of just going and playing.

Average O-Line??? They are God awful. I hope that Palmer is just in a funk and this isn't a season long thing. It is only 5 games, and they can get hot. However, they don't seem interested on offense.

 

What if I changed it to below average OL?

BGP Pro Sports forums are way more entertaining to read when the Bengals are losing... :lol:

CCC, CP is part of the problem, but you are way off if you think he's the 5th worst QB in the league. Part of CP's problems are his surroundings. He's not great. He's not really good. He's above average and he has a terrible line. His primary receivers are attention hogs that drop passes that high school kids think are easy. His head coach is terrible. His owner is worse. The picks are a big issue, but aren't they expected for him by now? He is what he is. A decent QB in a bad situation.

 

Some fans of the Bengals crack me up. Palmer manages a game and beats a very good Baltimore team. Yet fans are terribly unhappy and pound Bratkowski. This team needs to get back to running the ball and playing good solid D. The problem is since CP has a few new toys they want to throw it all over the field. They need to run to set up the pass again and limit CP's throws. It's boring as heck, but it wins them games. They don't have the coaching staff or discipline to win the Super Bowl, but they can win 9 games. The Saints and Chargers don't look like world beaters. If they can win those games it makes up for the last two really terrible losses. If they get back to running the ball a lot they have a better chance at seeing the playoffs. It's still a long shot, but it could be done.

CCC, CP is part of the problem, but you are way off if you think he's the 5th worst QB in the league. Part of CP's problems are his surroundings. He's not great. He's not really good. He's above average and he has a terrible line. His primary receivers are attention hogs that drop passes that high school kids think are easy. His head coach is terrible. His owner is worse. The picks are a big issue, but aren't they expected for him by now? He is what he is. A decent QB in a bad situation.

 

Some fans of the Bengals crack me up. Palmer manages a game and beats a very good Baltimore team. Yet fans are terribly unhappy and pound Bratkowski. This team needs to get back to running the ball and playing good solid D. The problem is since CP has a few new toys they want to throw it all over the field. They need to run to set up the pass again and limit CP's throws. It's boring as heck, but it wins them games. They don't have the coaching staff or discipline to win the Super Bowl, but they can win 9 games. The Saints and Chargers don't look like world beaters. If they can win those games it makes up for the last two really terrible losses. If they get back to running the ball a lot they have a better chance at seeing the playoffs. It's still a long shot, but it could be done.

 

I said I may have missed some. IMO he's better than Gradkowski/Campbell in Oakland, better than Clausen in Carolina, better than whatever garbage the Cardinals throw out there, better than the Goodwill quality QBs the Bills have, Jake Delhomme and he's probably better than Hasselbeck and Matt Cassel. Maybe over Garrard and Young, but I doubt it. However I would take the likes of Alex Smith, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Jay Cutler, and the Lions collection of QBs over him, let alone guys that are easily better than him. Sam Bradford is a rookie and is better I think.

 

So he's the in the bottom 1/3 of QBs in the league IMO, and some of the guys I named I would have to think about taking over him to be honest. Is there much difference in CP and Matt Cassel or Hasselbeck? Oh I know, CP throws to better players.

CCC, CP is part of the problem, but you are way off if you think he's the 5th worst QB in the league. Part of CP's problems are his surroundings. He's not great. He's not really good. He's above average and he has a terrible line. His primary receivers are attention hogs that drop passes that high school kids think are easy. His head coach is terrible. His owner is worse. The picks are a big issue, but aren't they expected for him by now? He is what he is. A decent QB in a bad situation.

 

Some fans of the Bengals crack me up. Palmer manages a game and beats a very good Baltimore team. Yet fans are terribly unhappy and pound Bratkowski. This team needs to get back to running the ball and playing good solid D. The problem is since CP has a few new toys they want to throw it all over the field. They need to run to set up the pass again and limit CP's throws. It's boring as heck, but it wins them games. They don't have the coaching staff or discipline to win the Super Bowl, but they can win 9 games. The Saints and Chargers don't look like world beaters. If they can win those games it makes up for the last two really terrible losses. If they get back to running the ball a lot they have a better chance at seeing the playoffs. It's still a long shot, but it could be done.

 

Maybe you think it is due to his surroundings, but give Brady or Peyton these "surroundings" and I guarantee they don't lose to the Browns and Bucs.

And above average? What are we going to call average? Would average make him the 15th best QB in the league?

 

Brady, P Manning, E. Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Big Ben, Flacco, Ryan, Favre, Schaub, Romo, McNabb, Vick are better no questions asked I think. That is 14. Is CP better than guys like Sanchez, Bradford, Kyle Orton and Cutler? Even if he is that would make him average at best in terms of starting QBs. So let's please stop with the above average crap for CP. He's not even that right now.

Maybe you think it is due to his surroundings, but give Brady or Peyton these "surroundings" and I guarantee they don't lose to the Browns and Bucs.

 

Bengals apologist do not realize that other teams actually have faults and limitations too. Cincy has the talent to make or at least compete for the playoffs. Cincy has the offensive talent for an average QB to look above average, an above average QB to look good and a good QB to look very good. The OL is bad, but Benson has put up numbers the last two seasons....that doesn't add up. The Bengals WRs drop passes but guys on the Colts, Patriots and Saints do not. Carson Palmer cannot be held accountable for throwing into coverage late in a game that he is leading in. His owner, coach and teammates continue to let him down and are the reason he looks so terrible. He's not terrible, not even Johny Unitas could move the ball with the likes of TO, Chad OchoCinco, Gresham and Shipley.

Cats your obsession with putting down Carson has become a bit much.

Cats your obsession with putting down Carson has become a bit much.

 

Not really. He looks freaking awful 95% of the time. Not many ways around that...

Not really. He looks freaking awful 95% of the time. Not many ways around that...

 

He has been pitiful no doubt about it. We already all that know, every Bengals thread turns into Cats getting on someone about Carson.

Carson is comfy on two passes the short hitch over the middle to Gresham and the fade route to TO/Chad. When he has to step up in the pocket and wait he doesn't do well.

Maybe you think it is due to his surroundings, but give Brady or Peyton these "surroundings" and I guarantee they don't lose to the Browns and Bucs.

 

He's nowhere near as good as Brady or Manning. That's why Cats is partly right. People want to compare CP to those guys. Him possibly being as good as those guys is no longer a possibility. He seemed like he could get in the discussion for top 5 QB 5 years ago. Now we know he will never reach that.