Are you saying that as a CHristian, I could do whatever I want with my life here on Earth and still be a believer in Christ.

 

AFTER I have given my life to Christ, I can murder and it's no big deal.

 

I can lie, cheat, steal, commit adultery, all those things that Jesus has said for us not to do and it doesn't mean diddly or squat?

 

No.

 

Try reading it again and comparing it to what your point seems to be.

No.

 

Try reading it again and comparing it to what your point seems to be.

 

My point is that the Bible indicates that our life should change when we give our life to Christ.

 

At what point, should a believer's life start showing these changes?

 

I person is baptized today and I would not expect their life to be a 180 degree change 5 minutes after their baptism and giving of their life to Christ.

My point is that the Bible indicates that our life should change when we give our life to Christ.

 

At what point, should a believer's life start showing these changes?

 

I person is baptized today and I would not expect their life to be a 180 degree change 5 minutes after their baptism and giving of their life to Christ.

 

You use extreme examples - prostitution for example.

 

We all sin daily and yet call ourselves believers.

 

Are there sins that are continuous that do not warrant a confrontation?

You use extreme examples - prostitution for example.

 

We all sin daily and yet call ourselves believers.

 

Are there sins that are continuous that do not warrant a confrontation?

 

Absolutely we sin every day as none of us is perfect.

 

I used extreme examples to not be drawn into the what is sin debate but rather wanting to use this thread as a discussion on how our choice to give our life to Jesus change our lives.

 

The last question you state is a great discussion question. What do others think? Are their sins that we commit everyday that we should not be concerned about? It might warrant it's own thread though.

Let's say you are an unbeliever in Christ and you are a business person who rips people off within legal means. (that way we can take calling the police out of this equation.) As someone that does not believe in Christ, we should welcome you with love and grace.

 

At some point, you decide to accept Christ into your heart.

 

At what point, as your Christian brother who we have a friendship, would it be reasonable for me to talk with you about your behavior as a Christian?

 

How long is appropriate for an unbeliever to work in their lives and make changes that they need to make?

 

I hink we all would agree that if an unbeliever was cheating on their family by having an affair, we would expect that to stop when they accept Christ into their lives.

 

What if it doesn't?

 

As a CHrisitan friend, at one point do I call that person accountable for their actions.

It is very difficult to have this conversation when various "Christian" factions today are unable to even agree upon what sin actually is.

 

I believe that the correction you describe should begin gently and in love immediately. We have gone so far in our attempts to make the Gospel palatable to our secular culture, we have diluted its power and genuine relevance to the human condition.

 

Galatians 5:24-26 “Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.”

 

As far as “who” is qualified to hold others accountable... I agree that fellow believers should be better skilled in these matters, but I'm not convinced that we need to restrict such advice and accountability to "believers" alone. As Christians, we should willingly submit ourselves to God's authority, actively living lives that honor His Word and example. I see no reason that non-Christians should not be able to say, "Hey, I thought your own book of truth says that it's not proper for you to be doing (fill in the blank) why do you do that?"

 

A lot of this is up to us... the condition of our hearts to receive conviction. I have received advice/conviction from both believers and non-believers that has helped to make my Christian walk more faithful.

How do we know who truly is a "believer?"

 

In Matthew 7:16-20 Jesus says this about false prophets rising up in His name:

 

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

 

I think a similar standard may be applied to those who claim to "believe in" and "follow" Jesus. But again, the problem arises… “Whose standards do we use to define the ‘fruit’ being borne?”

 

Paul instructs us in Galatians 5:22-23 “…the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.” These qualities stand opposed to the fruit of wickedness outlined in Galatians 5:19-21 “The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

In Matthew 7:16-20 Jesus says this about false prophets rising up in His name:

 

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

 

I think a similar standard may be applied to those who claim to "believe in" and "follow" Jesus. But again, the problem arises… “Whose standards do we use to define the ‘fruit’ being borne?”

 

Paul instructs us in Galatians 5:22-23 “…the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.” These qualities stand opposed to the fruit of wickedness outlined in Galatians 5:19-21 “The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

 

Great Scriptures to add to the discussion. Thanks Fast

From my perspective of Christian faith, God judges and/or forgives us on a individual basis...individual to the person, individual to the situation, and individual to the specific sin. I think, except when it comes to the most basic of moral concepts (e.i. - the killing, stealing, adultery...) we as men are not able to tell others what is morally 'right' and 'wrong' - only what is taught to us by the church and the Bible.

 

That being said, I think it is possible for someone to commit a sin, then truly express contrition for that sin, receive God's forgiveness for that sin, and to then commit the sin again somewhere down the road. It is of God - and not of man - to judge that person on whether or not they were truly repentant for the sin the first time around.

LRCW, I'll share more, I had a two hour meeting with the Pastor and he is having some issues with me, so thats where the Bro/Sisters came into play.

 

And that meeting was several weeks ago, so already took your advice. And the Bible says when you have a disagreeement you are to not meet alone bring a friend which I did.

 

 

:thumb: Now you tell the rest of the story. :lol:

I think this is great. Did your church do a program to match people up or did you come upon this yourself?

 

No we did it on our own, with the hope of expanding it to the rest of the congregation eventually. It's working great. We have Triple X Church tracking software on our computers that sends reports of where we surf to each other and we meet every two weeks for lunch or dinner and just share our struggles, and do a devotion. It's been great.

From my perspective of Christian faith, God judges and/or forgives us on a individual basis...individual to the person, individual to the situation, and individual to the specific sin. I think, except when it comes to the most basic of moral concepts (e.i. - the killing, stealing, adultery...) we as men are not able to tell others what is morally 'right' and 'wrong' - only what is taught to us by the church and the Bible.

 

That being said, I think it is possible for someone to commit a sin, then truly express contrition for that sin, receive God's forgiveness for that sin, and to then commit the sin again somewhere down the road. It is of God - and not of man - to judge that person on whether or not they were truly repentant for the sin the first time around.

 

On the underline, I agree 100%. It is not what LBBC or Colonels' view that is important but rather what does Scripture say.

 

On the italicized, what if their life is characterized by that sin?

 

On the bolded, I think we use that judge word too much. For me to say to you that X behavior is wrong is not judging as their is no verdict of eternal placement there. In the Scripture that is used all the time about do not judge, they wanted to stone the lady to DEATH and an eternal judgement would be made on here. Remember after Jesus refused to participate in the stoning, he did tell her to "go and sin no more." So obviously, there is a difference between taking someone's life through judging their behavior and telling someone that they shouldn't be sinning. If not, why did Jesus tell us to not judge and then "judged" her life by telling her to not go sin anymore.

No we did it on our own, with the hope of expanding it to the rest of the congregation eventually. It's working great. We have Triple X Church tracking software on our computers that sends reports of where we surf to each other and we meet every two weeks for lunch or dinner and just share our struggles, and do a devotion. It's been great.

 

Sounds like a program I would love and need to be a part of. I will bring this up with our minister.

On the underline, I agree 100%. It is not what LBBC or Colonels' view that is important but rather what does Scripture say.

 

On the italicized, what if their life is characterized by that sin?

 

On the bolded, I think we use that judge word too much. For me to say to you that X behavior is wrong is not judging as their is no verdict of eternal placement there. In the Scripture that is used all the time about do not judge, they wanted to stone the lady to DEATH and an eternal judgement would be made on here. Remember after Jesus refused to participate in the stoning, he did tell her to "go and sin no more." So obviously, there is a difference between taking someone's life through judging their behavior and telling someone that they shouldn't be sinning. If not, why did Jesus tell us to not judge and then "judged" her life by telling her to not go sin anymore.

 

Well, I suppose I take the word "judge" more literally to mean "cast judgement", as in, you did X wrong, so you will go to hell. You did Y wrong, so you will have to do N to get right with God. I don't think that's anything I can do.

 

And as far as life being characterized by sin, again, I think that's where it comes down to the individual person, situation, and sins. God knows our minds. He knows if we are truly sorry and repentant. People may sin a lot, but our God is a forgiving God, and if they are truly sorry for each of those sins, then who am I to say that God hasn't/won't forgive them?

 

From a Catholic perspective, this is why we practice going to confession. We need to remind ourselves of our sins and express the remorse and sorrow for having committed them by asking God for His forgiveness. As humans, we are sinful and no matter how hard we try, we will continue to sin. We need to ask for God's forgiveness for those sins.

 

And as far as life being characterized by sin, again, I think that's where it comes down to the individual person, situation, and sins. God knows our minds. He knows if we are truly sorry and repentant. People may sin a lot, but our God is a forgiving God, and if they are truly sorry for each of those sins, then who am I to say that God hasn't/won't forgive them?

 

From a Catholic perspective, this is why we practice going to confession. We need to remind ourselves of our sins and express the remorse and sorrow for having committed them by asking God for His forgiveness. As humans, we are sinful and no matter how hard we try, we will continue to sin. We need to ask for God's forgiveness for those sins.

 

You are 100% correct that our God is a forgiving God. But He is also a very wrathful God when He feels the need to do so. OT is full of stories on that.

 

Remember that Jesus came this time as a very loving God. But Scripture indicates when He returns, He will be much different.

 

There will be a time that 2nd chances are no more. And that time could be as easily as when I finish typing this sentence. Either Jesus returns or I kick the bucket and for me there would be no more chances.

You are 100% correct that our God is a forgiving God. But He is also a very wrathful God when He feels the need to do so. OT is full of stories on that.

 

Remember that Jesus came this time as a very loving God. But Scripture indicates when He returns, He will be much different.

 

There will be a time that 2nd chances are no more. And that time could be as easily as when I finish typing this sentence. Either Jesus returns or I kick the bucket and for me there would be no more chances.

 

I think it is dangerous to read Old Testament scripture without the lense of Jesus, otherwise you can easily justify killing heretics.

 

I also disagree with your interpretation of when "he returns". Did He not tell His disciples that He would be with them until the end? How does he return when He is already here.

 

Where in scripture does it say that second chances end?