The Bible tells us:

 

"Any person who curseth his father or mother must be killed" Leviticus 20:9

 

"People who have flat noses, or are blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God" Leviticus 21:17-18

 

"Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death" Deuteronomy 13:5

 

"The eating of fat is prohibited forever" Leviticus 3:17

 

"Entrance into the assembly of the Lord was granted only to those with complete testicles" Deuteronomy 23:1

 

"Stubborn children were to be stoned, and the stoning was to be instigated by their parents" Deuteronomy 21:18-21

 

"False prophets are to be killed by their own parents" Zechariah 13:3

 

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" Deuteronomy 22:28-29

 

 

I don't see how one can take all of those passages literally, without any interpretation or evaluation. There is some necessary interpretation to the Bible.

 

As in most cases, you need to finish the story and go onto the NT and the story of Jesus and how we are to view the OT and handle these type of Scriptures.

 

Question for you: Do you believe that God created all things as it says at the very beginning of the Bible?

Or you can take the approach that there's nothing wrong with questioning why things you disagree with are what they are. Just because you view something that way, doesn't mean you are viewing it the right way.

 

Questioning and discussion are fine.

 

But when you start to teach something that the Bible does not say, than there is problems.

 

Drinking is one of those issues that what people believe the Bible says on it, is not what it actually says on it.

Let's see how he spins that one...:lol:

 

No spin, as Paul Harvey used to say, and there is the rest of the story.

Question for you: Do you believe that God created all things as it says at the very beginning of the Bible?

 

Yes - to a point. The fact that the sun, moon and stars were not created until the 4th day points to the fact that there was no way to define a "day" as we understand it now. We understand a "day" to be 24 hours - the time period it takes for the earth to make one rotation on its axis and for the sun to rise, set, and rise again.

 

If the sun didn't exist until the fourth day, then it can be surmised that the "days" that God was creating in were not 24 hours in length. Who is to say, then, that a "day" wasn't a 600 million years in length? And what if during that 600 million year-long-"day" the earth and cosmos had time to evolve from the way that God had begun their creation into something closer to what we know now?

Yes - to a point. The fact that the sun, moon and stars were not created until the 4th day points to the fact that there was no way to define a "day" as we understand it now. We understand a "day" to be 24 hours - the time period it takes for the earth to make one rotation on its axis and for the sun to rise, set, and rise again.

 

If the sun didn't exist until the fourth day, then obviously the "days" that God was creating in were not 24 hours in length. Who is to say, then, that a day wasn't a 600 million years, where the earth and cosmos had time to evolve from the way that God had begun their creation?

 

So, if you can believe that God created everything, it seems logical that it is easy to believe the rest of the story.

 

I have no problem with your last paragraph.

 

Time is relevant to humans not to God.

Yes - to a point. The fact that the sun, moon and stars were not created until the 4th day points to the fact that there was no way to define a "day" as we understand it now. We understand a "day" to be 24 hours - the time period it takes for the earth to make one rotation on its axis and for the sun to rise, set, and rise again.

 

If the sun didn't exist until the fourth day, then it can be surmised that the "days" that God was creating in were not 24 hours in length. Who is to say, then, that a "day" wasn't a 600 million years in length? And what if during that 600 million year-long-"day" the earth and cosmos had time to evolve from the way that God had begun their creation into something closer to what we know now?

 

On the first day, God separated the light from the darkness and called the light day and the darkness night.

 

You are right on the fourth day and the creation of the moon, stars and sun.

 

Who knows how long those first days were. They could have been 24 hours and they could have been 600 million years in length.

So, if you can believe that God created everything, it seems logical that it is easy to believe the rest of the story.

 

I have no problem with your last paragraph.

 

Time is relevant to humans not to God.

 

Okay, do you agree that the Bible was written using the word "day", yet that the actual unit of time defined by that word is not the literal meaning of that word. That is interpretation of the Bible, and thus, I believe that there is some required interpretation and extrapolation involved in reading and understanding the Bible and its teachings.

Okay, do you agree that the Bible was written using the word "day", yet that the actual unit of time defined by that word is not the literal meaning of that word. That is interpretation of the Bible, and thus, I believe that there is some required interpretation and extrapolation involved in reading and understanding the Bible and its teachings.

 

Considering the calendar we use today was put into place by the Romans many years later, you cannot use our present day calendar to judge what is going on in Genesis.

 

Since there was no calendar at that time, we really don't know and discussion is fine.

 

BUT if you are to teach as you have authority that the actual time was X amount of hours/days, than that is an issue.

 

Questions and discussion is how the disciples learned from Jesus. Many times they were so thick headed that Jesus had to explain His parables to them. I think he might have even insulted them at one time because of their thickheadness.

 

But that ain't mentioned much as it doesn't fit in with the Jesus is only Love God that many want to try and portray and forget about the wrath part of God and Hell.

Since we are apparantly supposed to take the Bible 100% literally, word for word, what Scripture reference tells us to do so?

Since we are apparantly supposed to take the Bible 100% literally, word for word, what Scripture reference tells us to do so?

 

Scripture says that every word is God-breathed. I will look for the specific one.

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Timothy%203&version=NIV

2 Timothy 3 (New International Version)

 

2 Timothy 3

Godlessness in the Last Days

1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

 

Paul's Charge to Timothy

10You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Interesting to note in the above Scripture when it is listing all the types of people their will be it tells us in those last days "have nothing to do with them."

But who's to say that the Bible is valid on everything? Is it not extremely naive to believe that every word in the Bible should be taken literally? Because someone disagrees or questions something, does not mean they are "cherry-picking" which teachings or lessons to follow. To me it's simply trying to get a better understanding, and it's a huge turn-off to many that anyone who doesn't blindly follow in line is vilified for it.

 

Questioning is encouraged when dealing with every other arena, but somehow you're vilified for doing so with matters of religion? Doesn't make any sense to me.

I was not picking on you directly, and I fully understand your displeasure with those who for all variety of reasons, insist that their way is the only way. I was referring to those who set up separate denominations, cults or sects based upon highly selective interpretations that suit their agenda... and ability to assert power over others. This has been a danger - spiritually speaking - the entire history of man.

 

It may sound crazy, but I think you and I are essentially arguing toward the same goal from different angles. All I want is the truth... not what someone believes is true for them, but the actual, rock solid truth. For me, after 50 years of reading, studying and trying to understand all the major religions and beliefs, I am convinced that the Judeo-Christian Bible and Jesus Christ are the only legitimate solution to my problem of sin and separation from God. I believe this so strongly, I am betting my eternal destiny on the veracity of the information at hand.

 

Truth, by its very nature is exclusive. Either something is true or it is not. Every major religion contains a good deal of truth, but when it comes down to the nature of God and the requirements we face to connect with Him and ultimately join Him... all claims cannot possibly be true.

 

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me." I happen to believe this... but this is a very exclusive statement. In this single sentence, He effectively rules out 100 other ways and beliefs... or establishes once and for all His insanity... or complete evil in misdirecting us.

 

Either He's who He says He is, or He's a crazy, evil liar.

 

I do not believe He is insane or a liar.

 

I have not, ever "forced" my beliefs upon anyone. I will attempt to provide a basis for my beliefs, but fully accept that everyone is free to choose for themselves.

 

While I do believe the Bible is valid, I do not endorse taking every single verse literally. There are 66 books in the Bible. Some are legal. Some are poetic. Some are literary. All vary in their method of recording God's inspiration. It is important to interpret these varied methods contextually.

 

I do believe there are some passages that should be taken at face value and acted upon appropriately. There are others that require some understanding of setting, context and direct application to us here and now.

 

The bottom line is, God is more than big enough to handle our sincere questions. I encourage it highly. :thumb:

The way Jesus portayed himself only gives us two options. He was either crazy by claiming He was the Son of God or He was the Son of God.

 

Scripture does the same thing by saying every word is God-breathed. Either you take every word as accurate or you can question it all in it's entirety.

 

I usually agree with much of what you say LBBC, and here I agree with you in intent but, which words do we believe as accurate? You know where I am going with this.

 

KJV: John 14:2 "In my Father's House are many mansions."

RSV: John 14:2 "In my Father's House are many rooms."

NAS: John 14:2 "in my Father's House are many dwelling places."

 

Now you and I know what Jesus is speaking about but the reality is that the words/metaphors are different and have been a big sticking point to so many. There are other places as well (Romans 16:1 with "diakonon").

 

So is debating the intention of those words or text, stating that I some how question God's Word in it's entirety?

Since we are apparantly supposed to take the Bible 100% literally, word for word, what Scripture reference tells us to do so?

 

One of the things that FB's post reminded me is relevant to your post.

 

To read the Bible and understand it, is to study it. The Scriptures have to be read in context and the audience they were written for in case of the NT letters.

 

What is very dangerous is to pull out a Scripture that you like what it says and use it without knowing when/where/how/for whom it was written and then not use it in it's full context.

 

One of the Scriptures that is used this way alot is the story of Jesus and the woman the crowd wanted to stone. Jesus says, "those without sin cast the first stone." And people use that as we shouldn't judge and tell people they are sinning. Jesus said so.

 

But they don't complete the story and give it's full context when Jesus tells the woman he won't condemn her either but to go and sin no more.

 

Oooops, Jesus did call her out on her sin.

 

Most who use this Scripture to support their argument that we should never tell anyone they are sinning, stop the Scripture after the those without sin part.

I usually agree with much of what you say LBBC, and here I agree with you in intent but, which words do we believe as accurate? You know where I am going with this.

 

KJV: John 14:2 "In my Father's House are many mansions."

RSV: John 14:2 "In my Father's House are many rooms."

NAS: John 14:2 "in my Father's House are many dwelling places."

 

Now you and I know what Jesus is speaking about but the reality is that the words/metaphors are different and have been a big sticking point to so many. There are other places as well (Romans 16:1 with "diakonon").

 

So is debating the intention of those words or text, stating that I some how question God's Word in it's entirety?

 

I think the meaning/intent in your examples is basically the same and see no differences.

 

I think studying the intention is acceptable as the apostles did that when Paul called Peter out for (if I remember right) what he was eating.

 

I think when you question God's Word is when you read something, don't like it and say "I ain't believing in that." Then it becomes your religion and not Christianity.