To realize that while God is a loving God He is also a God of Wrath and that His Word is to be taken very serious and not wished away that every path leads to God and that everyone will be saved.

 

Has anyone implied or stated that every path leads to God?

Has anyone implied or stated that every path leads to God?

 

Well I thought you implied it with

 

 

I truly deeply do not think salvation is about a set of beliefs, credes or dogmas. It is about a relationship with God, Yahweh, Allah, the Great Spirit, (I struggle with Shiva, et al but who am I to judge) or whatever you have grown to know as God as long as you are searching for God and serving others.

Well I thought you implied it with

 

There is only one path, and that path is the search for God, so it is not any path. Finding God is made possible through the actions of Jesus. Can someone growing up in and East Asian culture who never heard of Jesus still find the high good? Does Matthew not say that is the case, or is it Romans? I think it is Romans which talks about our knowledge and responsibility regarding our knowledge.

 

Tony Campolo talks of meeting with an Eastern Holy man. He shares the story of Jesus and living the life God intended. The Easter Holy Man tells Campolo (or whoever Campolo is telling the story about) that he has always lived in "The Way" but that Campolo had just given him a name. Would the Eastern Holy Man have found heaven without Campolo or would he have been condemned to Hell because he had not heard "our" specific gospel.

 

If there are people who can make it to heaven without ever hearing of Jesus then there is certainly more than one path. Are all non-Jews who lived before Christ burning in hell?

There is only one path, and that path is the search for God, so it is not any path. Finding God is made possible through the actions of Jesus. Can someone growing up in and East Asian culture who never heard of Jesus still find the high good? Does Matthew not say that is the case, or is it Romans? I think it is Romans which talks about our knowledge and responsibility regarding our knowledge.

 

Tony Campolo talks of meeting with an Eastern Holy man. He shares the story of Jesus and living the life God intended. The Easter Holy Man tells Campolo (or whoever Campolo is telling the story about) that he has always lived in "The Way" but that Campolo had just given him a name. Would the Eastern Holy Man have found heaven without Campolo or would he have been condemned to Hell because he had not heard "our" specific gospel.

 

If there are people who can make it to heaven without ever hearing of Jesus then there is certainly more than one path. Are all non-Jews who lived before Christ burning in hell?

 

I can understand your point here, but if a person has been exposed to Jesus but chooses a different religion in which Jesus is not the Way to God, thus rejecting Him, do you feel comfortable in stating that they will be in Heaven despite their rejection of Jesus?

 

It is in Romans that it mentions those that by their nature is living a Godly life without ever having heard about Jesus will be saved.

But the way it is used in the Old Testament, God intentionally killed the people he did, there is no doubt. So I ask, how can you not view that position and the one found just a few books later of "Thou Shall Not Murder", as anything other than a contradiction?

 

I'm still waiting on an explaination on this....

I'm still waiting on an explaination on this....

 

Are you saying that humans are to hold God to the same accountability that He holds us to?

Are you saying that humans are to hold God to the same accountability that He holds us to?

 

How in the world would you get that from my question?

 

If the Bible is word for word "God-breathren" then all aspects should be showing us how to live. God murdered people, thus showing that murder is acceptable. A couple books later, God tells us "Thou Shall Not Murder"....Can't have it both ways.

Isaiah 55:8/9 "The LORD says My thoughts are not your thoughts, your ways are not like my ways. Just as the Heavens are higher than the Earth so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts higher than your thoughts."

 

Thats why he is God, he cannot be questioned. The Wrath of God is dealt with in the Bible.

 

Its like the choice between Heaven and Hell, why would God sent a man to Hell to burn for eternity? "He was a good man, helped others, hard worker, gave money to the poor, and so forth, but he never confessed Jesus as Savior and repented of his sins. He is in Hell.

 

Matthew 7:13 "The gate is wide and the road is wide that leads to Hell, but the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to heaven, only a few people will find that gate".

 

As I have said/heard, what if these writings are right what has an unbeliever lost..everything, but if these writings are wrong we are in the same boat.

Isaiah 55:8/9 "The LORD says My thoughts are not your thoughts, your ways are not like my ways. Just as the Heavens are higher than the Earth so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts higher than your thoughts."

 

Thats why he is God, he cannot be questioned. The Wrath of God is dealt with in the Bible.

 

Its like the choice between Heaven and Hell, why would God sent a man to Hell to burn for eternity? "He was a good man, helped others, hard worker, gave money to the poor, and so forth, but he never confessed Jesus as Savior and repented of his sins. He is in Hell.

 

Matthew 7:13 "The gate is wide and the road is wide that leads to Hell, but the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to heaven, only a few people will find that gate".

 

As I have said/heard, what if these writings are right what has an unbeliever lost..everything, but if these writings are wrong we are in the same boat.

 

If you cannot question God, there is no reason for faith. I don't have to have faith in linear algebra, because I know the facts are the facts, and they cannot be questioned. If I cannot question God then you rule out our mind, that God gave us. We have to have doubts and we have to question. It is spiritual immaturity that says God says it and that is it.

 

I don't believe for one second that God told the Israelites to murder innocent women and childrent. I think the men who wrote those words, attributed their actions to God, much like our religious leaders today attribute Katrina and Haiti earthquake to God's punishment. It is not true, and if you read the old testament through the lense of Jesus you have to see that some of it cannot hold up to scrutiny.

What exists in those books that changes the salvation through Jesus Christ story of the Bible?

 

That's not the premise of his question. If every book of the Bible is God Breathed, then how can you eliminate certain books, and wouldn't it be again, picking and choosing the messages?

 

Rockmom is right. I'm not asking anything about these books' content. LBBC, you said:

I think when you question God's Word is when you read something, don't like it and say "I ain't believing in that." Then it becomes your religion and not Christianity.

 

Now first off, historically, the Bible was formally compiled as Christian canon between A.D 108 and A.D. 235. At that time, the books of the Bible generally varied in language, and were not all translated to the Latin until around A.D. 405 by St. Jerome. However, at that time, the Bible did include the Old Testament books that I listed. So...seeing as the Protestant reformation didn't begin until 1517, how can you say that someone didn't decide to selectively not recognize part of scripture and form their own kind of "Protestantanity" by choosing to remove these books from the Bible?

 

Additionally your "God-breathed" reference is to the 2nd Epistle of Paul to Timothy, chapter 3, verse 16, correct? Paul, this book's author, lived in the first century A.D., so you would have to assume that his reference was going back to the Christian/Hebrew scripture that had been written previous to his epistolary writings. The Deuterocanonical books that I referenced (1st and 2nd Maccabees, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, The Wisdom of Solomon, and Sirach) were all written in the first and second centuries B.C., so why then does Paul's "God-breathed" reference not apply to them? One would have to assume that it does apply to them. However, it appears to me, that this goes against your "I ain't believing in that" argument. Somewhere along the line in the Protestant reformation, there were a lot of people who said "I ain't believing in that" about quite a few pieces of "God-breathed" Biblical scripture. The problem with that is, if we look further into your argument, by removing these things from their religious beliefs, "Then it becomes your religion and not Christianity"...correct?

How in the world would you get that from my question?

 

If the Bible is word for word "God-breathren" then all aspects should be showing us how to live. God murdered people, thus showing that murder is acceptable. A couple books later, God tells us "Thou Shall Not Murder"....Can't have it both ways.

 

If you ONLY read the OT, I could see your argument although it would be incorrect, but as I have repeatedly said, you have to read the OT through the eyes of Jesus in the NT. Where you will find that not only are we NOT to murder our enemies but rather LOVE them.

Rockmom is right. I'm not asking anything about these books' content. LBBC, you said:

 

 

Now first off, historically, the Bible was formally compiled as Christian canon between A.D 108 and A.D. 235. At that time, the books of the Bible generally varied in language, and were not all translated to the Latin until around A.D. 405 by St. Jerome. However, at that time, the Bible did include the Old Testament books that I listed. So...seeing as the Protestant reformation didn't begin until 1517, how can you say that someone didn't decide to selectively not recognize part of scripture and form their own kind of "Protestantanity" by choosing to remove these books from the Bible?

 

Additionally your "God-breathed" reference is to the 2nd Epistle of Paul to Timothy, chapter 3, verse 16, correct? Paul, this book's author, lived in the first century A.D., so you would have to assume that his reference was going back to the Christian/Hebrew scripture that had been written previous to his epistolary writings. The Deuterocanonical books that I referenced (1st and 2nd Maccabees, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, The Wisdom of Solomon, and Sirach) were all written in the first and second centuries B.C., so why then does Paul's "God-breathed" reference not apply to them? One would have to assume that it does apply to them. However, it appears to me, that this goes against your "I ain't believing in that" argument. Somewhere along the line in the Protestant reformation, there were a lot of people who said "I ain't believing in that" about quite a few pieces of "God-breathed" Biblical scripture. The problem with that is, if we look further into your argument, by removing these things from their religious beliefs, "Then it becomes your religion and not Christianity"...correct?

 

There is a thread on here where we discussed how books were chosen and not. I am in a rush this morning and cannot devote the time I would like to in answering your questioning. I hope to have so more free time tonight to be able to continue this discussion. Didn't want you to think that I was skirting your question.

If you ONLY read the OT, I could see your argument although it would be incorrect, but as I have repeatedly said, you have to read the OT through the eyes of Jesus in the NT. Where you will find that not only are we NOT to murder our enemies but rather LOVE them.

 

:lol: So you're saying I should pick and choose which of "God-Breathed" scripture I should take literally? You really can't see how your entire arguement is a walking contradiction?

 

I mean the entire Bible is made up of books that were "picked and choosen" from a great many. How was it determined that the books left out weren't "God-Breathed"?

If you cannot question God, there is no reason for faith. I don't have to have faith in linear algebra, because I know the facts are the facts, and they cannot be questioned. If I cannot question God then you rule out our mind, that God gave us. We have to have doubts and we have to question. It is spiritual immaturity that says God says it and that is it.

 

I don't believe for one second that God told the Israelites to murder innocent women and childrent. I think the men who wrote those words, attributed their actions to God, much like our religious leaders today attribute Katrina and Haiti earthquake to God's punishment. It is not true, and if you read the old testament through the lense of Jesus you have to see that some of it cannot hold up to scrutiny.

 

Do you believe that God opened up the ground and swallowed (killed) all those during the Golden Calf episode?

 

Do you believe in the story of Noah and God flooding the world and thus killing all those during the flood?

:lol: So you're saying I should pick and choose which of "God-Breathed" scripture I should take literally? You really can't see how your entire arguement is a walking contradiction?

 

I mean the entire Bible is made up of books that were "picked and choosen" from a great many. How was it determined that the books left out weren't "God-Breathed"?

 

Not at all. I am reading the entire story. You do not seem to be. You want to read one part and think that is the END of the story.

 

But it is not. Read the entire story and put it in the context that Jesus makes it.

 

When Jesus came, he fulfilled the OT Law of sacrificing on the altar to try and earn God's salvation.

 

I have always felt that the OT was God's way of showing us that HUMANS are not capable of earning salvation with God. Cause in the OT we kept screwing it up.

 

So, God said, see you can't do it. I know you and how proud you are and thinking you can do anything. But you can't and the OT shows you can't. It is a part of the Bible that shows Human's failure to earn God's salvation.

 

So God said I will take care of it for you with my Son, Jesus.

 

You have to read/study the entire story.

 

As far as how the books were chosen, that is a thread that has been discussed here before. I will try and find it later when I have more time.