I think it is dangerous to read Old Testament scripture without the lense of Jesus, otherwise you can easily justify killing heretics.

 

I also disagree with your interpretation of when "he returns". Did He not tell His disciples that He would be with them until the end? How does he return when He is already here.

 

Where in scripture does it say that second chances end?

 

I agree with the first paragraph.

He is with us but I am talking of his physical return.

So, you think after my death I can still receive salvation by accepting Christ into my heart which I technically don't have because I am dead?

You are 100% correct that our God is a forgiving God. But He is also a very wrathful God when He feels the need to do so. OT is full of stories on that.

 

Remember that Jesus came this time as a very loving God. But Scripture indicates when He returns, He will be much different.

 

There will be a time that 2nd chances are no more. And that time could be as easily as when I finish typing this sentence. Either Jesus returns or I kick the bucket and for me there would be no more chances.

 

I agree with you on the "we know not the hour" aspect you mention, and that is why I believe the necessity exists to revisit your sinfulness and reconcile ourselves with God. If we as humans are unable to stop sinning, then we can't stop asking for forgiveness...otherwise we would be accepting that we have turned from God (no matter how seldom or how frequent), and continued on without trying to bring ourselves back into His good graces.

 

If we don't continue to make an effort to make right for our transgressions and thus maintain living in our state of sin, when God does return and separate the proverbial wheat from the chaff, we may well find ourselves "burning with the unquenchable fire".

I agree with the first paragraph.

He is with us but I am talking of his physical return.

So, you think after my death I can still receive salvation by accepting Christ into my heart which I technically don't have because I am dead?

 

Why not?

Why not?

 

Please support your implication here that a person can be saved AFTER their death with Scripture.

Please support your implication here that a person can be saved AFTER their death with Scripture.

 

This is my biggest problem with religion, specifically Christianity....Why does everything someone believes have to be supported by Scripture? If someone believes they can be "saved" after death, why do Christians feel that it is their job to tell that person how wrong they are? It's that sort of behavior that, IMO, gives religion a bad name.

Please support your implication here that a person can be saved AFTER their death with Scripture.

 

I will work on the scripture to support, but can you cite specific scripture that says your chances end when this earthly life ends?

I will work on the scripture to support, but can you cite specific scripture that says your chances end when this earthly life ends?

Hebrews 9:27 might be a good start... "...man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment..."

"If your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It is better for you to enter into the Kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire, where their worm doesn't die, and the fire is not quenched.

For everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt. Salt is good, but if the salt has lost its saltiness, with what will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another." Mark 9:47-49

 

 

 

"If you are to go with your opponent before a magistrate, make an effort to settle the matter on the way; otherwise your opponent will turn you over to the judge, and the judge will turn you over to the constable, and the constable throw you in into prison. I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny." Luke 12:58-59

 

"...for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that there is, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay or straw, the work of each one will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one's work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only through fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

This is my biggest problem with religion, specifically Christianity....Why does everything someone believes have to be supported by Scripture? If someone believes they can be "saved" after death, why do Christians feel that it is their job to tell that person how wrong they are? It's that sort of behavior that, IMO, gives religion a bad name.

I am in no way attacking your sincere question. I don't know about you, but I have learned that I cannot always in all things trust my "feelings" or even my "beliefs". If I acted on every feeling I've ever had, when I had it and felt it sincerely, I'd be behind bars right now or on the other side of eternity.

 

What purpose does it serve to have "scripture" at all if it is not the foundation upon which we build our beliefs and base our actions?

 

You, me, everyone is genuinely free to believe whatever we choose, but without scripture, what is there to determine who's "belief" or "feeling" is valid?

 

I can certainly understand how non-Christians reject the Bible as a source of absolute authority, but I do have a difficult time understanding how those who claim to be Christian think it is appropriate to cherry-pick the things they feel comfortable with and ignore some of the more challenging teachings.

 

I am very concerned, especially in America in 2010 that we have drifted away from the pure teaching and calling of Jesus Christ. I think the most accurate translation of the Bible is more valuable than the opinion of any pastor, priest, rabbi or other present day teacher. But that may just be me... :thumb:

This is my biggest problem with religion, specifically Christianity....Why does everything someone believes have to be supported by Scripture? If someone believes they can be "saved" after death, why do Christians feel that it is their job to tell that person how wrong they are? It's that sort of behavior that, IMO, gives religion a bad name.

 

Then it becomes UKMustanganity or LBBCanity and not Christianity. Scripture supports what Jesus said we are supposed to do. Are you implying that I should be able to make up my own rules about what God wants me to do instead of following what Jesus has told me to do in the Bible?

I am in no way attacking your sincere question. I don't know about you, but I have learned that I cannot always in all things trust my "feelings" or even my "beliefs". If I acted on every feeling I've ever had, when I had it and felt it sincerely, I'd be behind bars right now or on the other side of eternity.

 

What purpose does it serve to have "scripture" at all if it is not the foundation upon which we build our beliefs and base our actions?

 

You, me, everyone is genuinely free to believe whatever we choose, but without scripture, what is there to determine who's "belief" or "feeling" is valid?

 

I can certainly understand how non-Christians reject the Bible as a source of absolute authority, but I do have a difficult time understanding how those who claim to be Christian think it is appropriate to cherry-pick the things they feel comfortable with and ignore some of the more challenging teachings.

 

I am very concerned, especially in America in 2010 that we have drifted away from the pure teaching and calling of Jesus Christ. I think the most accurate translation of the Bible is more valuable than the opinion of any pastor, priest, rabbi or other present day teacher. But that may just be me... :thumb:

 

 

But who's to say that the Bible is valid on everything? Is it not extremely naive to believe that every word in the Bible should be taken literally? Because someone disagrees or questions something, does not mean they are "cherry-picking" which teachings or lessons to follow. To me it's simply trying to get a better understanding, and it's a huge turn-off to many that anyone who doesn't blindly follow in line is vilified for it.

 

Questioning is encouraged when dealing with every other arena, but somehow you're vilified for doing so with matters of religion? Doesn't make any sense to me.

But who's to say that the Bible is valid on everything? Is it not extremely naive to believe that every word in the Bible should be taken literally? Because someone disagrees or questions something, does not mean they are "cherry-picking" which teachings or lessons to follow. To me it's simply trying to get a better understanding, and it's a huge turn-off to many that anyone who doesn't blindly follow in line is vilified for it.

 

Questioning is encouraged when dealing with every other arena, but somehow you're vilified for doing so with matters of religion? Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

The way Jesus portayed himself only gives us two options. He was either crazy by claiming He was the Son of God or He was the Son of God.

 

Scripture does the same thing by saying every word is God-breathed. Either you take every word as accurate or you can question it all in it's entirety.

Then it becomes UKMustanganity or LBBCanity and not Christianity. Scripture supports what Jesus said we are supposed to do. Are you implying that I should be able to make up my own rules about what God wants me to do instead of following what Jesus has told me to do in the Bible?

 

The Bible tells us:

 

"Any person who curseth his father or mother must be killed" Leviticus 20:9

 

"People who have flat noses, or are blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God" Leviticus 21:17-18

 

"Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death" Deuteronomy 13:5

 

"The eating of fat is prohibited forever" Leviticus 3:17

 

"Entrance into the assembly of the Lord was granted only to those with complete testicles" Deuteronomy 23:1

 

"Stubborn children were to be stoned, and the stoning was to be instigated by their parents" Deuteronomy 21:18-21

 

"False prophets are to be killed by their own parents" Zechariah 13:3

 

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" Deuteronomy 22:28-29

 

 

I don't see how one can take all of those passages literally, without any interpretation or evaluation. There is some necessary interpretation to the Bible.

The way Jesus portayed himself only gives us two options. He was either crazy by claiming He was the Son of God or He was the Son of God.

 

Scripture does the same thing by saying every word is God-breathed. Either you take every word as accurate or you can question it all in it's entirety.

 

Or you can take the approach that there's nothing wrong with questioning why things you disagree with are what they are. Just because you view something that way, doesn't mean you are viewing it the right way.

The Bible tells us:

 

"Any person who curseth his father or mother must be killed" Leviticus 20:9

 

"People who have flat noses, or are blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God" Leviticus 21:17-18

 

"Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death" Deuteronomy 13:5

 

"The eating of fat is prohibited forever" Leviticus 3:17

 

"Entrance into the assembly of the Lord was granted only to those with complete testicles" Deuteronomy 23:1

 

"Stubborn children were to be stoned, and the stoning was to be instigated by their parents" Deuteronomy 21:18-21

 

"False prophets are to be killed by their own parents" Zechariah 13:3

 

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" Deuteronomy 22:28-29

 

 

I don't see how one can take all of those passages literally, without any interpretation or evaluation. There is some necessary interpretation to the Bible.

 

 

Let's see how he spins that one...:lol: