One of the problems with comparing football to every other sport is the verbage of post season play - in football "playoff" sounds like you earn it, in the other sports it is usually called something like "district games or tournaments". In reality football post season play right now is a district tournament of sorts. I don't have a problem with the format, but maybe what we are calling it is where the arguments begin. It seems older people who played when only a few teams made the playoffs are offended by the calling the current system a playoff.

Schools can no longer have "Football Money", and "Basketball Money", it has to be used for all athletics, Title IX. That is why most schools have booster clubs that do most of the fundraising, the booster club is not part of the school and does not have turn that money over to the school and can keep that money for their sport.

 

Keep in mind Ram that, as I understand it, the booster money contributed for one sport is counted for Title IX purposes (or is supposed to under the law). In other words, if a booster program contributes big dollars for football or basketball, those dollars "count" for Title IX compliance purposes as football or basketball expenditures regardless of the source.

 

If schools aren't accounting for the dollars that way, at some point such will be uncovered in an audit and sanctions will likely follow. Again, as I understand it, a dollar spent on football is a dollar spent on football, regardless of the source.

I think more schools profit from first round games than do not, but we hear the stories of how Fulton City loses money on the gate split with Louisville Holy Cross because it is a 4-5 hour trip for a first round game and they quite frankly dont have the support to make the gate profitable.

 

You rarely hear about the gates from Trigg County/Owensboro Catholic (although down this year), or Fort Campbell/Caldwell County.

 

I think if you went to five classes and made the districts slightly larger, you would see a little better product on the field in the first round. But it doesn't mean you'll see more fans in the seats. People from Boyle County saw this when they traveled the Christian County -- the defending Class 5A runner up -- and had as many people there if not more.

Keep in mind Ram that, as I understand it, the booster money contributed for one sport is counted for Title IX purposes (or is supposed to under the law). In other words, if a booster program contributes big dollars for football or basketball, those dollars "count" for Title IX compliance purposes as football or basketball expenditures regardless of the source.

 

If schools aren't accounting for the dollars that way, at some point such will be uncovered in an audit and sanctions will likely follow. Again, as I understand it, a dollar spent on football is a dollar spent on football, regardless of the source.

You may be correct. But if the booster club in incorporated it makes some kind of difference, I think. I know we Incorporated our booster club for some reason along those lines. But, I have heard what you said before, but I am unclear on the exact interpretation of the Bylaw.

I think if you went to five classes and made the districts slightly larger, you would see a little better product on the field in the first round. But it doesn't mean you'll see more fans in the seats. People from Boyle County saw this when they traveled the Christian County -- the defending Class 5A runner up -- and had as many people there if not more.

 

Of course, that's a comparison between one of the most supported schools, and quite frankly, one of the worst. Christian County has always underwhelmed me in their attendance.

I think one class needs to be Private schools only, and I really don't care which class it is. But put LCA/ Lex. Cath. St. X, Trinty, etc., all in one class.

 

I hope your joking.

Maybe the alignment needs to be geography and not male population of school. Obviously there are a few 2A and 3A schools that can compete with the larger schools - because they are either private or located in a strong football area (Lex, Lville, NKY)

 

Some of the schools that are 5A are more compatible with 3A and 4A because they are rural and even though they have the numbers they won't have the participation.

 

Maybe the designation by population is outdated

I think one class needs to be Private schools only, and I really don't care which class it is. But put LCA/ Lex. Cath. St. X, Trinty, etc., all in one class.

 

Just asking a question. When they went 6 classes a few years ago wasn't this what they wanted to do?? I thought they wanted to keep 4 classes of public schools. And a big and small school Private/ Independent?? :confused:

Step 1. Go back to four classes.

Step 2. Do away with regions (what do thy really mean anyway).

Step 3. Have 8 conferences in each class (about 7 teams per conf)

Step 4. Top 2 teams qualifiy for 16-team playoff

 

or

 

Step 1. Go to five classes.

Step 2. Do away with regions (what do thy really mean anyway).

Step 3. Have 8 conferences in each class (about 5 or 6 teams per conf)

Step 4. Top 2 teams qualifiy for 16-team playoff

 

Either system would reward those who have done well within their conference throught the year and would still allow out of class or out of conference games.

 

Part of the development of young athletes is to prepare them for adulthood, telling them everyone wins and goes to the playoffs is not how we should be doing that. If you like that idea, why don't we just get rid of the playoffs, add four or five more games to the schedule and then give everyone a state championship trophy.

 

 

If it involves fewer football games for more teams than I am dead set against it. Until we start limiting every other sport in the KHSAA where every team qualifies for the postseason, I will never be behind more limitations. The kids play the game to PLAY the game.

If it involves fewer football games for more teams than I am dead set against it. Until we start limiting every other sport in the KHSAA where every team qualifies for the postseason, I will never be behind more limitations. The kids play the game to PLAY the game.

 

I have said that before, it is not just football I refer to in this, but all sports. Football should not be the only one doing this, it should aply to all of the KHSAA sports across the board. Of the four states that I have involved with sports in, KY is the only one that I have ever seen that does it like this, not saying there are not more out there, but I have never seen it except for here.

I have said that before, it is not just football I refer to in this, but all sports. Football should not be the only one doing this, it should aply to all of the KHSAA sports across the board. Of the four states that I have involved with sports in, KY is the only one that I have ever seen that does it like this, not saying there are not more out there, but I have never seen it except for here.

 

Just curious, but of the four states you have been involved with - do they all do it the same way? Please share the states and their formats so we can see if theirs are any better.

 

Did the people in those states all agree that it was ok - no changes necessary or did they have varying opinons of the system as well?

It is an opportunity that is based on a reward system. I do agree that those that win state have earned that title, but not everyone deserves a chance to compete. This is teaching them nothing about life other then no matter what they do, they will get another chance. That is not a good lesson.

 

I would have to say, personally at least, that I wouldn't think it was a "reward" to be a bottom seed in the playoffs. That means that you're going to be playing against one of the "top teams" in the playoffs, and that in all likelihood, you're gonna get spanked and knocked out in the first round.

 

If you ask me, that's not a reward at all...that's motivation to play better during the regular season, and it's a punishment if you don't produce.

 

I think it's a great idea to put all of the teams in the playoffs. That most certainly does teach a life lesson...those who work harder can gain themselves more, and better opportunities.

I've come to the conclusion that no matter what change you make some will never be happy. That point reminds me of when I lived in North Carolina and they changed their format (they crown 8 champions now) people that supported Southwest Onslow (the team I followed most) got really bent out of shape over it, but no one got as bent out of shape as the Coach of SW Onslow, he said something along the lines of when we win our next state championship I'm not sure we'll even place it in the trophy case, he said it would diminish the real trophy's in there...

Thanks, sounds like Pike County better hire a CPA...

 

This will be interesting to follow.:popcorn:

Just curious, but of the four states you have been involved with - do they all do it the same way? Please share the states and their formats so we can see if theirs are any better.

 

Did the people in those states all agree that it was ok - no changes necessary or did they have varying opinons of the system as well?

 

I am not sure how it is now, but the states I have been involved with did it this way at the time.

 

State 1 (OR)

4 Classes (3A, 2A, 1A, & B) (Classes applied to the school for all sports)

Class B played 8-man football, at for some events, the classes combined the state tournament (i.e. The first year soccer was an approved event Class 2A, 1A, & B played one tournament, 3A played its own.

Eight Districts, 6-8 teams per

Top 2 teams qualified for the state tournament

The 8 District Champions were seeded 1-8 (based on overall record), the runner-up was seeded accordingly on the opposite side of the brackets (you could, and we did have an all-district state championship).

 

Worked out pretty good and most were happy with it.

 

 

State 2 (AZ)

5 classes (3A, 2A, 1A, B & C) (Classes applied to the school for all sports)

Class C did not play football that I am aware of

Some sports combined classes for the state tournament

4 District, 4-7 teams per

Top 2 teams qualified for the state tournament

All teams were seeded based on overall record, you could see the district runner-up and champion play any round

 

Many people complained, and know they use a point system that selects teh 16 best teams in the state regardless of district. Many people complain about anyway, especially since they do not count the first three games of the season because some schools only play 7 games due to money issues.

 

 

State 3 (TN)

Not sure of all of the sports, but in football teams are selected out of their district and can play at different classes for the playoffs (ie. Some district 10 teams go the 6A playoffs and some to go 5A playoffs). Just a mess and I am not sure anyone like it and they had a bunch of problems putting the right team into the playoffs this year and had to republish the brackets.

 

State 4 (KY)

You all know this one.

 

As I said, I am not sure how these guys are doing it now, except for TN (and it is to hard to explain) and KY. I do not think any of these systems are perfect, but I think overall, OR had the best system overall. For the most part it applied to all schools and all sports. There were 4 state champions in each sport (unless numbers justified combining some of the classes) and if you did not do well in your district, you did not go the playoffs. One thing that was kind of weird in OR though, in wrestling, each school was allowed to put 2 wrestlers into the district tournament, so if you had some good #2 wrestlers, you could actually send 2 wrestlers in a single weight class to the state tournament (if they were the district champion and runner-up).

 

 

I guess ultimately, it does not matter what anyone does, it will always come down to the fact that someone will never be happy.