Give it a break you guys geez.

 

I never bring up anything about Kobe to needle at you guys-Kobe fans-I just don't understand why I get dismissed when I bring up Paul Pierce when we talk about clutch players.

Now that I am off from work....here are some examples....watch the whole 8 minute clip to see if these are considered clutch shots by your definition.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2yzNQWFYko

 

CatsCatsCats, you start a lot of these discussions, why choose sarcasm now? Every Laker fan on here knows he choked last night, and you admittedly loved it and rehashed, the whole "how clutch is Kobe really" debate. You brought this on yourself. You should know that the Laker nation residing here in BGP land will pounce right back. You know this mannnn........

 

Oh, did you check out the "Kobe's clutch moments" youtube clip? I put that up here so you could get some examples. While researching I also ran across a claim that Kobe has 27 game winners and that Jordan himself only had 26. Now, I cannot verify that claim at this time, but in time I will. I'll let you know what I find out.

 

Purple I guess I have to discuss 2 things

 

1. Never said Kobe wasn't clutch, please read this entire thread. I said that the idea that he is the most ruthless 4th quarter player in the league is overbown, mainly because his game doesn't do well when the Lakers are down. I believe that his style of game either works at the end of games or doesn't. He is going to take the big shots no matter what, even if someone else is wide open. Kobe isn't as good when the Lakers are down in the 4th, and that is all that I can say.

The video was nice, but what was that suppose to convince me of? That he has hit some big shots? I've already stated that. Doesn't change the fact that Kobe isn't as good in the 4th as he is made out to be. That doesn't mean that he isn't good, but what I have observed is that when the Lakers trail by a few in the last minutes you can force Kobe into some mistakes and bad shots.

The clip gave very few examples of what I'm talking about. I think you are missing the point. And no the point is not that I try to bring Kobe down. I'm just stating the very overlooked facts.

 

2. The sarcasm was because no matter what is said on here, if it doesn't sing Kobe's praises people throw a fit. I could say that Kobe is the 9th best player of all-time and people would be mad. The 9th best basketball player in the history of the world!

I think it's funny, I'm not complaining. I won't lose any sleep over it or anything.:thumb:

 

This whole thing isn't a Kobe-hate thing. Legitimately some questions have to be asked when you consider Kobe's legacy as a closer. Is it the same to just hit shots in the last two minutes no matter what the scoreboard says? You be the judge, but to me you see a different Kobe with a four point lead than the one you see when the Lakers trail in the last 3 minutes.

Wishful thinking. Kobe does give Pau the ball. He had 8 assists remember? He didn't pass it to himself. Rafer Alston had his best game of the series last night. Let's see if he does it again. Tony Battie, come on, are you being serious? I think Kobe petered out last night out after the first quarter, but the mentality of being the superstar and team leader, you want to take it upon yourself to make the shots that are needed. Last night, Kobe failed miserably, but what makes him so great is knowing that he won't do that 2 games in a row. Again, Orlando has no chance. They won't beat the Lakers 3 games in a row. This series goes no more than 6 games. I'd like to see Orlando beat the Lakers when the Lakers play great and then I'll be convinced. The Lakers haven't been that good as a team the last 2 games and came out 1-1. I fully expect them to win tomorrow night.

 

 

Food for thought.....

 

The Lakers are undefeated in this year's playoffs the game after a loss and the average margin of victory in those games is something like 17 points.

 

Purple, you can't act like the Lakers played terrible last night. Kobe was missing shots in the 2nd half, but overall the Lakers shot well. I don't buy that LA played poor defense either, when they're on the Magic can shoot even with good defense. Not the best Laker performance, but not the garbage they came with in the Houston series either.

Purple, you can't act like the Lakers played terrible last night. Kobe was missing shots in the 2nd half, but overall the Lakers shot well. I don't buy that LA played poor defense either, when they're on the Magic can shoot even with good defense. Not the best Laker performance, but not the garbage they came with in the Houston series either.

 

When the opposing team shoots over 60%, that is an awful defense performance. There is no way around that. I also have blamed last night's loss on Kobe. There is no way around that either.

The Lakers shot 51%, their second best performance of the last three series.

I skimmed through and didn't see it mentioned, but did anyone watch Dwight Howards on court interview after the game ended last night? If not it was a classic in my eyes. He said "You Know" like thirty times in two minutes. It was like after every sentence he was saying you know. I would guarantee he said it more times than AI said practice back during practice-gate. Have no idea why this stuck out to me so much, but it was certainly obvious if you saw the interview.

 

As for the game, the Magic just would not lose this one. Lakers played a great game, but the Magic just a better one. 65% is unreal for a Finals game. Skip to My Lou played like a champ after practically being absent for games one and two. Kobe disappeared in the second half, going 4-15 is very un-Kobe like.

 

Hopefully Orlando can even it back up tomorrow night, and if they do it will have to be from another balanced attack IMO. 5 guys with 18 or more is a pretty good stat.

 

 

 

 

 

If interested here is a short write up on game two, not too mention a video of Howard. Its not the on court interview (which I couldn't find) but it is the press conference afterword and I guess he didn't get them all out of his system.

 

 

http://www.makavellisports.blogspot.com

The Lakers shot 51%, their second best performance of the last three series.

 

Yeah, but their offensive performance doesn't translate to success defensively.

You brought up Chauncey not being clutch and Kobe's clutchness was being called into question, so I was just throwing Pierce out there as the most clutch.

 

Unless if you meant I lost you because I said Paul Pierce and disagree, then I guess the above sentence was a waste. :lol:

 

:thumb:

 

I got you now. And, no, I don't disagree. Pierce has proven himself able to hit big shots late in games, especially over the last two years.

Now that I am off from work....here are some examples....watch the whole 8 minute clip to see if these are considered clutch shots by your definition.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2yzNQWFYko

 

Nice clip...the shot to beat Portland around the 5:20 mark of the video was my favorite.

 

Also noticed two or three times Kobe dribbled the ball off his foot and ended up making a big shot on that possession. Maybe that's a crafty strategy of his that teams have caught up to, since he's tried it twice this post-season and it hasn't worked. :lol:

 

And, two final observations...Kobe was cooler when....

 

1. He had hair, especially the mini-fro.

2. He wore #8.

 

JMO

Yeah, but their offensive performance doesn't translate to success defensively.

 

That's fine, but it still doesn't change the fact that they shot the ball incredibly well as a team.

 

It seems like the sentiment is that L.A. played awful and Orlando shot the best percentage in NBA history and the Lakers still only lost by 4. While I don't think L.A. played their best, it was far from their worst. And quite frankly, Orlando still has room to improve as well. Maybe not offensively, but definitely defensively.

Well, tonight is the big one. The finals will either all but be over, or we'll be down to a best of 3. That's a lot of pressure on one game.

 

I think the Lakers have to pound the ball in to Gasol more. And, they need to put Odom in the post and pound it to him more. Orlando doesn't have an answer for both of them and the Lakers have to take advantage of that. Gasol is shooting 62% and Odom is 65%.

 

Kobe needs to use those guys more, IMO. First, because it's just smart basketball to feed the post when you have a huge matchup advantage. Second, I think he needs to conserve his energy for the stretch run of games. Third, getting Lamar Odom into the game makes the Lakers a much better team and one that is almost impossible to defend. Not to mention what Odom can give you on the defensive end when he's focused.

I have a good feeling about one tonight for the Lakers.

Well, tonight is the big one. The finals will either all but be over, or we'll be down to a best of 3. That's a lot of pressure on one game.

 

I think the Lakers have to pound the ball in to Gasol more. And, they need to put Odom in the post and pound it to him more. Orlando doesn't have an answer for both of them and the Lakers have to take advantage of that. Gasol is shooting 62% and Odom is 65%.

 

Kobe needs to use those guys more, IMO. First, because it's just smart basketball to feed the post when you have a huge matchup advantage. Second, I think he needs to conserve his energy for the stretch run of games. Third, getting Lamar Odom into the game makes the Lakers a much better team and one that is almost impossible to defend. Not to mention what Odom can give you on the defensive end when he's focused.

 

 

I get the feeling Kobe wants to have an overwhelming game and go for 45 in the finals in a series changing game. I just don't think he's a good enough teammate to go to those guys enough when they still have a series advantage.

When the opposing team shoots over 60%, that is an awful defense performance. There is no way around that. I also have blamed last night's loss on Kobe. There is no way around that either.

 

Lakers really aren't that good defensively. The more you pass the ball the worse they are at defending you.

 

The Lakers shot 51%, their second best performance of the last three series.

 

No one brings that up. The Magic played great and the Lakers played terrible...garbage. Great point DragonFire.

 

Yeah, but their offensive performance doesn't translate to success defensively.

 

Offense is the Lakers best defense.

 

That's fine, but it still doesn't change the fact that they shot the ball incredibly well as a team.

 

It seems like the sentiment is that L.A. played awful and Orlando shot the best percentage in NBA history and the Lakers still only lost by 4. While I don't think L.A. played their best, it was far from their worst. And quite frankly, Orlando still has room to improve as well. Maybe not offensively, but definitely defensively.

 

I agree with every word said here.

 

I get the feeling Kobe wants to have an overwhelming game and go for 45 in the finals in a series changing game. I just don't think he's a good enough teammate to go to those guys enough when they still have a series advantage.

 

I could see that. IMO one of two things happen.

 

1. Kobe goes for 50, shooting a low percentage from the field. 30 shots or so. The Magic win. They withstood one person scoring a whole bunch last series.

 

2. Kobe shoots a high percentage on around 19 or 20 shots. He picks his spots and allows Gasol and Odom to get into the game. The Lakers win.

 

We know that Kobe wants this ring badly. Does he have enough faith in the Lakers to share the load? Most of the playoffs say yes, but to put it plainly Kobe hasn't played that bad down the stretch of a game since he was a rookie shooting air balls in the fourth quarter.

Well, tonight is the big one. The finals will either all but be over, or we'll be down to a best of 3. That's a lot of pressure on one game.

 

I think the Lakers have to pound the ball in to Gasol more. And, they need to put Odom in the post and pound it to him more. Orlando doesn't have an answer for both of them and the Lakers have to take advantage of that. Gasol is shooting 62% and Odom is 65%.

 

Kobe needs to use those guys more, IMO. First, because it's just smart basketball to feed the post when you have a huge matchup advantage. Second, I think he needs to conserve his energy for the stretch run of games. Third, getting Lamar Odom into the game makes the Lakers a much better team and one that is almost impossible to defend. Not to mention what Odom can give you on the defensive end when he's focused.

 

:thumb: Orlando cannot guard Pau and Lamar at the same time. They just cant. That is a HUGE advantage for LA, IMO, and if they utilize it they win.