How and why?

 

The KHSAA only counts it as the winner of the Sweet 16.

 

Saying it is so does not make it so.

It's the All A Classic State Championship, not the KHSAA State Championship. They're run by different organizations but are still both state titles. Why? Because the All A is a statewide tournament between the teams that meet the enrollment guidelines to participate.

Our school was runner-up in the State All A in 1990, and we have a banner in our gym recognizing that accomplishment as a state championship runner-up (UHA won the championship that year).

Bottom line -

 

The All A Classic is a statewide tournament. Is it a state championship? No. Is the winning team champions of a statewide tournament? Absolutely. The All A Classic is a great tournament and I'm not sure why folks are always trying to spew negativity about it. It is great for the smaller schools to have an opportunity to play in a statewide tournament.

 

I am not spewing negativity I am just trying to make sure it is called what it is, a tournament championship not a state championship.

It's the All A Classic State Championship, not the KHSAA State Championship. They're run by different organizations but are still both state titles. Why? Because the All A is a statewide tournament between the teams that meet the enrollment guidelines to participate.

Our school was runner-up in the State All A in 1990, and we have a banner in our gym recognizing that accomplishment as a state championship runner-up (UHA won the championship that year).

 

No, it is the All A Classic Championship. It is not a state championship, the only state championships with KHSAA sanctioned sports are those awarded by the KHSAA. The All A is a great tournament, it is a tough tournament and I respect the hell out of the teams that have won it. They have not however won a state title in doing so.

 

As has often been stated one of the things that makes Kentucky basketball so unique is the fact that there is ONE true champion. By calling the All A Classic winner a state champion you inherently are undermining a system which many on here seem to defend mightily.

 

If you feel that the All A should be considered a legitimate state title then why are you not trying to get the KHSAA to classify basketball. The All A is essentially trying to do an off the record classification anyway(which does not include strictly A teams anyway).

If Raceland were a regular visitor to Richmond, I guarantee you the kids, fans and school would most certainly think of it as a state championship.

 

I can't believe there's all this hand-wringing over semantics. Sure, it's not an official state championship. But the event has evolved to the point where it feels like one. It's conducted as though it's one. Players, fans and the schools treat it as though it's one, whether it is by the letter of the law or not. Who are we to take that away from them over semantics?

 

The bolded is all I am trying to point out. It is a heck of an honor, it is a difficult task and it is a great thing to have accomplished. In the end though, it is NOT a state championship.

I am not spewing negativity I am just trying to make sure it is called what it is, a tournament championship not a state championship.

Even a statewide tournament, that includes every team in the state that meets a certain criteria ("A" Schools in this case), can't be called a State Championship???

What is the point of all this rambling back and forth? Obviously the All A tournament is not THE state championship but it is set up exactly like the state championship minus the district level where all of the A schools compete at the regional level and then go to Richmond and compete for the title. The winner of this tournament has made an incredible accomplishment that should not be dimished by who sanctioned the tournament. I don't think the coaches and players of the winning team leave Richmond thinking they are the best team in the state of Kentucky. They have the opportunity to prove that later in the year. So all this back and forth and all of this venom coming from PepRock is pretty much pointless.

Even a statewide tournament, that includes every team in the state that meets a certain criteria ("A" Schools in this case), can't be called a State Championship???

 

 

Well not all the schools involved in the "All A" tournament are necessarily A schools as the classification itself that it was based on originally has changed since its inception. That is again a matter of order and nothing more.

 

It cannot be called a state championship in a sanctioned sport in KY unless the KHSAA is involved. Now if the KHSAA decided to get involved and make it a legitimate title, then we're cool and I am done with this discussion. However until they do, I am here like that bad penny that just seems to turn up. :lol:

What is the point of all this rambling back and forth? Obviously the All A tournament is not THE state championship but it is set up exactly like the state championship minus the district level where all of the A schools compete at the regional level and then go to Richmond and compete for the title. The winner of this tournament has made an incredible accomplishment that should not be dimished by who sanctioned the tournament. I don't think the coaches and players of the winning team leave Richmond thinking they are the best team in the state of Kentucky. They have the opportunity to prove that later in the year. So all this back and forth and all of this venom coming from PepRock is pretty much pointless.

 

 

What venom? You are manufacturing venom. I have stated on numerous occasions, and will do so again since your unhappiness with the concept seems to blind you to my main point, that it is an amazing accomplishment. It is indeed a true honor to be the team that makes the run through the gauntlet of the All A Classic and emerges victorious. I have never said anything different.

 

You may not like the fact that I am calling you all out on a point of order, but facts are indeed facts. The only official title in Kentucky is the one for the winner of the Sweet 16, which you clearly agreed with above.

The venom is not manufactured. It is there in your 40, and counting, posts on this subject. Your posts read like a person who makes a disparaging comment to someone and then adds the line "no offense" at the end. No one has made a single post that suggests that the All A winner is THE state championship winner or even suggested that they are the best team in the state but you continue to :deadhorse: over the fact that it is not a KHSAA sanctioned event. We all know that!!!!! Although it is not sanctioned by the KHSAA all the schools that compete must be a member of the KHSAA and they play by all the rules governed by the KHSAA and it is set up exactly like the KHSAA post season event minus the district round. The part that you are refusing to see is that since every school that is classified as an A school in basketball has the opportunity to compete it is a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP. It is simply not the KHSAA sanctioned All A State Championship. So in the future just make your comments and leave out the "no offense" part and move on.

Of course it does. A group of teams get together and declare something to be so, it is an identical situation.

 

Would you feel different if I changed the requirements to make it only schools with "County" or "ville" in their name?

 

It is an arbitrary designation designed to salve egos. It is a tournament that takes place in this state but it is not a state tournament as it is not the state championship.

 

Normally I agree w/ you, but you are way off on this one.

The venom is not manufactured. It is there in your 40, and counting, posts on this subject. Your posts read like a person who makes a disparaging comment to someone and then adds the line "no offense" at the end. No one has made a single post that suggests that the All A winner is THE state championship winner or even suggested that they are the best team in the state but you continue to :deadhorse: over the fact that it is not a KHSAA sanctioned event. We all know that!!!!!

 

Then why are some still calling it a State Championship? All I am looking for is acknowledgment that it is a tournament championship, a prestigious one at that, but not a true state championship. Anyone calling it a state championship is essentially ignoring the actual state championship. Kentucky has no classes for basketball and the only state champion is the one crowned at the end of the Sweet 16. By calling the All A Champion, a state champion it denigrates the meaning for both. Diluting the value of either.

 

Thus I am of the mindset that for each of them to maintain their extremely high and important value it is necessary to call them what they are. The All A Champion and the State Champion. Two entirely different entities unless of course someone wins both.

 

As to the venom, it is most certainly manufactured. I have no inherent problem with those who compete in the All A. I bear them no ill will, any sarcasm that was used earlier was there to illustrate my point. If it came off as offensive it was most certainly not my intent.

 

Although it is not sanctioned by the KHSAA all the schools that compete must be a member of the KHSAA and they play by all the rules governed by the KHSAA and it is set up exactly like the KHSAA post season event minus the district round. The part that you are refusing to see is that since every school that is classified as an A school in basketball has the opportunity to compete it is a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP. It is simply not the KHSAA sanctioned All A State Championship. So in the future just make your comments and leave out the "no offense" part and move on.

 

What constitutes a state championship in Kentucky if not being sanctioned by the KHSAA? If we are awarding state titles in sanctioned sports outside of the purview of the KHSAA is there any point in keeping the KHSAA? What constitutes an "A" school in basketball as there are no official classifications in basketball anyway? Are we using football classifications for this purpose?

 

The All A Champion has accomplished much, proven much and deserves the title of All A Champion. They are however NOT State Champions, that is reserved for the winner of the Sweet 16 and no other.

 

 

I will post on this matter as I wish, there is no venom and no intentional offense meant. I am here to clarify a point of order, no more and no less.

Normally I agree w/ you, but you are way off on this one.

 

 

Please illustrate to me, clearly, how I am way off on this matter.

The All A Champion has accomplished much, proven much and deserves the title of All A Champion. They are however NOT State Champions, that is reserved for the winner of the Sweet 16 and no other.

 

 

I am really not sure why you are holding onto this so hard. You are correct in what you stated about that they would not be THE state champion. They are however THE All A State Champion. If the tournament is made up of every single A team in the state how could you call them anything but the All A State Champion? You are acting as if these kids and coaches that win the All A walk around showing there rings or telling stories that they were the winners of the Sweet Sixteen. Obviously this is not happening. We all know that Shelby Valley is the 2008-2009 All A State Champion and that they were not good enough to win the Sweet Sixteen. Holmes was good enough to win the Sweet Sixteen and are THE state champion. Do you really think any who follows Kentucky high school basketball is confused by these facts? We all know the difference.

Then why are some still calling it a State Championship? All I am looking for is acknowledgment that it is a tournament championship, a prestigious one at that, but not a true state championship. Anyone calling it a state championship is essentially ignoring the actual state championship. Kentucky has no classes for basketball and the only state champion is the one crowned at the end of the Sweet 16. By calling the All A Champion, a state champion it denigrates the meaning for both. Diluting the value of either.

 

Thus I am of the mindset that for each of them to maintain their extremely high and important value it is necessary to call them what they are. The All A Champion and the State Champion. Two entirely different entities unless of course someone wins both.

 

As to the venom, it is most certainly manufactured. I have no inherent problem with those who compete in the All A. I bear them no ill will, any sarcasm that was used earlier was there to illustrate my point. If it came off as offensive it was most certainly not my intent.

 

 

 

What constitutes a state championship in Kentucky if not being sanctioned by the KHSAA? If we are awarding state titles in sanctioned sports outside of the purview of the KHSAA is there any point in keeping the KHSAA? What constitutes an "A" school in basketball as there are no official classifications in basketball anyway? Are we using football classifications for this purpose?

 

The All A Champion has accomplished much, proven much and deserves the title of All A Champion. They are however NOT State Champions, that is reserved for the winner of the Sweet 16 and no other.

 

 

I will post on this matter as I wish, there is no venom and no intentional offense meant. I am here to clarify a point of order, no more and no less.

 

At the end of the day does it do any harm to you or anyone else for that matter if some people view it as a state championship? I seriously doubt it. You've made the same exact posts at least 10 times apiece. We get it, the only state titles are the ones sanctioned by the KHSAA. Winning the tournament is a big accomplishment but not a state title. Anyone that believes otherwise is believing a falsehood. Does that about cover your point?

 

At the end of the day people are going to believe and treat the All A the way they want to see it. It does harm to neither, you, me or them however they view it. It is a statewide tourney that has regional qualifiers and a 16 team state finals. The winner is recognized as the best class A (according to the tourney rules, not football classifications) basketball (or baseball, or softball etc.) team in the state. This is done by the organization that runs the tourney and they are referred to as state champions for that tourney--not KHSAA Champs. Please just let it go, you aren't changing anyone's mind and they aren't changing yours. It doesn't hurt anyone either way. :ohbrother:

This one has run it's course.