Also today, an additional witness said he saw a coach forbid three or four players from getting drinking water while they were running sprints after the regular practice session ended on Aug. 20.

 

Honestly, what coach would let you get water while running sprints?

 

None I've ever played for..

So she gave her best recollection of what was said. I don't see the big deal here, unless you think she's making it up entirely. Very infrequently do witnesses remember verbatim what was said to them or what they overhead. It's not a perfect world. They offer, as best they can recall, what they believed they saw or heard. She may be off a word or two, but I'm guessing what she offered is pretty darn accurate.

 

I just can't help but wonder if there's something else at play here, such as people trying to take advantage of a tragic situation to run out a coach.

Honestly, what coach would let you get water while running sprints?

 

None I've ever played for..

 

Yep. Conditioning is supposed to be hard and players are supposed to moan and groan. It's a different story if the coach wasn't allowing water breaks at all, not enough, or too short of time to get enough water, but not allowing players to get water during the middle of drills or during conditioning is expected.

Yep. Conditioning is supposed to be hard and players are supposed to moan and groan. It's a different story if the coach wasn't allowing water breaks at all, not enough, or too short of time to get enough water, but not allowing players to get water during the middle of drills or during conditioning is expected.

 

:thumb::thumb:

I just can't help but wonder if there's something else at play here, such as people trying to take advantage of a tragic situation to run out a coach.

 

I don't know but I certainly would hope not. I have to agree that there are some things in this that just don't add up but as far as I can tell not enough info or knowledge for me to form an opinion.

I just pray that is not the case, if so that would put a whole new meaning to the word classless and there are certainly other descriptions that would apply.

I just can't help but wonder if there's something else at play here, such as people trying to take advantage of a tragic situation to run out a coach.

 

Could be, I wouldn't know. But having taken hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of witness statements in my 22-year law enforcement career, all I can tell you is that eyewitness testimony is not a perfect science. You simply accept that, in most instances, you aren't going to get a verbatim regurgitation of what someone heard (or saw). You simply ask them to recall the exact words (or incident) as best they can and accept they could be off a word or two or maybe even three. It's the nature of the beast. Now if there's something that leads an investigator to believe the statement is so far left of center as to be believable, that is another issue, and you need to take a harder look at that person's motives, background, or ability to be objective. With only the woman's statement to go on at this point, I just don't see that it falls into the category of being suspicious at this point.

I just can't help but wonder if there's something else at play here, such as people trying to take advantage of a tragic situation to run out a coach.

 

 

This is indeed tragic, that a young man's life ended so early. I certainly feel sorry for the family involved.

 

As to relying too much on witnesses, a small plane crashed into the Ohio river in the nearby town of Ripley last week. One witness said they heard a loud crack and saw the plane nosedive 300 yards into the river. Another witness said the pilot had been showboating and skimming the water's surface and appeared to dip the plane's wheels too far into the water.:confused:

This is tragic, but as has already been stated most coaches go to extreme to make sure players are hydrated. Maybe the young man didn't take full advantage of breaks when they were offered. I'm very surprised this didn't happen much more when I played back in the 70's when we had very few water breaks.

Here is the HUGE problem with this issue .... (I am going to make a statement that isn't necessarily even related to this case in particular--but all of those who are quick to jump to either side--pay close attention):

 

HYDRATION is something that needs to happen BEFORE practice begins.

 

You need to replace fluids immediately after practice--and should sip water consistently throughout the day leading up to practice.

 

You are not going to hydrate yourself properly once practice already started.

 

It is imperative that things are DONE right BEFORE practice even begins.

 

Funny .. I don't see anyone preaching that.

 

I am not taking up for the coach ...or the parents.

 

There is plenty of blame to go around here ... I am sure of that.

 

At the end of the day, as a coach, our kids can have water when ever they want ... they don't have to ask. But--we also PREACH that kids have to take care of HYDRATION after practice--and leading up to it.

Here is the HUGE problem with this issue .... (I am going to make a statement that isn't necessarily even related to this case in particular--but all of those who are quick to jump to either side--pay close attention):

 

HYDRATION is something that needs to happen BEFORE practice begins.

 

You need to replace fluids immediately after practice--and should sip water consistently throughout the day leading up to practice.

 

You are not going to hydrate yourself properly once practice already started.

 

It is imperative that things are DONE right BEFORE practice even begins.

 

Funny .. I don't see anyone preaching that.

 

I am not taking up for the coach ...or the parents.

 

There is plenty of blame to go around here ... I am sure of that.

 

At the end of the day, as a coach, our kids can have water when ever they want ... they don't have to ask. But--we also PREACH that kids have to take care of HYDRATION after practice--and leading up to it.

 

:thumb::thumb: Very good points, that was mentioned briefly in an earlier post but imo it needs repeating. Not just for this case but as a reminder to all athletes everywhere.

Here is the HUGE problem with this issue .... (I am going to make a statement that isn't necessarily even related to this case in particular--but all of those who are quick to jump to either side--pay close attention):

 

HYDRATION is something that needs to happen BEFORE practice begins.

 

You need to replace fluids immediately after practice--and should sip water consistently throughout the day leading up to practice.

 

You are not going to hydrate yourself properly once practice already started.

 

It is imperative that things are DONE right BEFORE practice even begins.

 

Funny .. I don't see anyone preaching that.

 

I am not taking up for the coach ...or the parents.

 

There is plenty of blame to go around here ... I am sure of that.

 

At the end of the day, as a coach, our kids can have water when ever they want ... they don't have to ask. But--we also PREACH that kids have to take care of HYDRATION after practice--and leading up to it.

 

You are exactly right! With my son (travel baseball) and daughter (travel soccer), we force them start drinking water about 3 hours before their game or practice times. They have both felt the effects of not doing this and learned their lessons. My son had to come out of a game in the 3rd inning this summer where he had a no-hitter going because he was so gassed. He had been at a friend's house before the game and did not drink his water. He lost his legs and had to come out and the team ended up losing the game. That was the best lesson ever. Like you said quickslick, if you wait to hydrate when the game or practice starts, you've waited too long!:thumb:

Yep. Conditioning is supposed to be hard and players are supposed to moan and groan. It's a different story if the coach wasn't allowing water breaks at all, not enough, or too short of time to get enough water, but not allowing players to get water during the middle of drills or during conditioning is expected.

 

So I guess if you have a kid playing football and he is feeling hot or sick and needs a drink during a drill, regardles if he just had a drink five minutes before and he still feels hot or ill and the coach denies him that drink and he drops and later dies, you support that coach in his decision not to let your kid have a drink during a drill?

Expected or not, if a kid needs a drink on a hot day during a football practice, you let him stop and get a drink.

So the drill was interupted to get a life saving drink.......I can't understand the why this would be a problem.

 

I think we need to wait for the post mortem results and go from there. In KY it can take a month (or longer) before toxicology results are in, and the autopsy is not final until the toxicology results are in so we may not know the facts for a while. Of couse in a high profile case such as this one, the tests may get priority and be put ahead of other cases.

Here is the HUGE problem with this issue .... (I am going to make a statement that isn't necessarily even related to this case in particular--but all of those who are quick to jump to either side--pay close attention):

 

HYDRATION is something that needs to happen BEFORE practice begins.

 

You need to replace fluids immediately after practice--and should sip water consistently throughout the day leading up to practice.

 

You are not going to hydrate yourself properly once practice already started.

 

It is imperative that things are DONE right BEFORE practice even begins.

 

Funny .. I don't see anyone preaching that.

 

I am not taking up for the coach ...or the parents.

 

There is plenty of blame to go around here ... I am sure of that.

 

At the end of the day, as a coach, our kids can have water when ever they want ... they don't have to ask. But--we also PREACH that kids have to take care of HYDRATION after practice--and leading up to it.

 

I'm asking a legit question and not trying to counter anything you say. I trust your knowledge in this area.

 

His body temp was 107 by the time he got to the hospital so lets assume it was a bit higher during practice. Would taking water breaks during practice help lower his temp if we assume he didn't hydrate properly before practice?

So I guess if you have a kid playing football and he is feeling hot or sick and needs a drink during a drill, regardles if he just had a drink five minutes before and he still feels hot or ill and the coach denies him that drink and he drops and later dies, you support that coach in his decision not to let your kid have a drink during a drill?

Expected or not, if a kid needs a drink on a hot day during a football practice, you let him stop and get a drink.

So the drill was interupted to get a life saving drink.......I can't understand the why this would be a problem.

 

I think we need to wait for the post mortem results and go from there. In KY it can take a month (or longer) before toxicology results are in, and the autopsy is not final until the toxicology results are in so we may not know the facts for a while. Of couse in a high profile case such as this one, the tests may get priority and be put ahead of other cases.

I thought the paper said no autopsy was going to be done. They established there was no pre-existing condition while he was still in the hospital.

 

From the article linked in the first post...

In another development today, Deputy Coroner Sam Weakley said an examination of Max while he was hospitalized for three days before he died Saturday night showed he had no pre-existing conditions. “He was an otherwise healthy 15-year-old boy,” Weakley said.

 

He said that is why he decided, in consultation with the Kentucky medical examiner’s office and Max’s family, that an autopsy was unnecessary.

I'm asking a legit question and not trying to counter anything you say. I trust your knowledge in this area.

 

His body temp was 107 by the time he got to the hospital so lets assume it was a bit higher during practice. Would taking water breaks during practice help lower his temp if we assume he didn't hydrate properly before practice?

 

Question still hasn't been raised but may play a big part in this situation? How big was this athlete? Was he over weight? This can play a big part especially when everyone is being conditioned with similar expectations.