I didn't mean offense...but it's one of the sticking points some denominations have with regard to the Catholic Church.

 

We drink & we gamble.

 

The actions of drinking and gambling aren't part of the religion, though. They're just not condemned by the religion.

 

The sin is in the overindulgence of either, just as in overeating, etc.

 

 

We just know how to have fun. :dancingpa

 

Beer, Bingo and Brats the 3 B's of church picnics. :lol:

Some would say it's miraculous, or God's Will, or mystical.

 

 

Just because God is involved doesn't mean it can't feel creepy.

The Bible has several warnings against drunkenness, but only one caution against the responsible use of alcohol in celebration and with meals. That caution is to be careful, when you are in fellowship with Christians with a weaker conscience, that you don't cause a brother to stumble. A total prohibition against the use of alcohol is conspicuous largely by its absence, particularly to an individual from a conservative Christian sub-culture.

 

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration, or a Sabbath day. Colossians 2:16

Question on the Pope thing.

 

Understand the whole Peter thing and where it comes from.

 

Now what is the biblical basis on the rest of the gentleman who served as Popes?

2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness

 

Has anyone ever called the Pope the Anti-Christ on this board...-1 point to the Protestants.

 

Also I have yet to see the Protestants back up there belief with some hardcore scripture, while the Catholics brought their scripture "A" game.

 

The score is 6-3, but I wouldn't those feisty protestants out yet....

For those of you who say why pray to saints if you have direct access through Jesus, here's a question:

 

 

Why would you ask, then, for the prayers of your fellow Christians here on earth? Why do we pray for each other's souls? For solutions to each others problems? For a swift return to health?

 

This thread is a perfect example of my problems with organized religions. Too many people believing in different things and having too many different views. All thinking and hoping that at the end of their lives, they were right.

 

It's all a big coin flip to me at this point in my life. Pick one and defend it to the death.

 

I'm sorry to get off topic but the part in bold has always bothered me and it really doesn't deserve a thread of it's own. Maybe one of you can answer it for me.

 

I've been to several churches and people stand up and give testimonials. This is my least favorite part of church. It always seems like an awkward moment and then someone stands up and breaks the ice. It's always the same people saying the same thing every Sunday.

 

Back to where I was going with all this. When people give testimonials, it always seems like at least one person talks about how they can't wait to leave this "hell" that we are currently living in and meet their lord. Then, in the same breath, they ask to heal someone who is sick and in the hospital.

 

I don't understand that. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but if we're living in such hell right now, why wouldn't you want a fellow Christian to die and meet the lord ? Why wouldn't you want to die yourself. Why wouldn't we all just kill ourselves.

 

Religions remind me of cults in a lot of ways. They really bother me sometimes. Sad thing is, I desperately want to find my faith in something, it just seems impossible at this point.

Hebrews 7 seems to indicate Jesus is the only priest that we need.

23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

 

26Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Hebrews 4

 

Jesus the Great High Priest

14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens,[e] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. 16Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Hebrews 9

The Blood of Christ

11When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. 12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!

15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

 

I always took this, especially 15, to mean that we don't need anyone else besides Christ. We don't need a preacher, a pastor, a minister, a pope, a bishop, a priest, a cardinal, a deacon, a elder, an apostle, a Sunday School teacher.

 

Jesus Christ is the ONLY mediator that we need for us and God. I am not perfect enough to face God one on one. And no man, no matter the title, can face God for or with me.

 

Only Jesus and His blood that he covers me with can stand beside me and allow me to face God and be judged.

 

So, no matter who that man/woman is or their title, at the end of times, they mean nothing.

 

All that matters is whether Jesus is willing to say, this is one of my sheep.

No. In the early church he could; but that changed many hundreds of years ago. RM could give you the exact date...and maybe even the time and a brief weather report.

Got a couple quick questions.

 

Who changed the rule about popes marrying... Man or God ?

 

If man changed it ... Where did the authority to do so come from ? I have never known God to give men the right to change his Word at anytime.

 

Why ... Rev.22: 18,19. " For i testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,If any man shall add unto these things,God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy God shall take away his part out of the book of life,and out of the holy city,and from the things which are written in this book."

What more scripture do you need?

 

Do you pray for your family if one is ill? Is there a scripture that states "Thou shalt pray for yur family members?" No.

 

The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ, "I am the way the truth and life no man comes to the Father except by me." Matthew also tells us to ask and it will be given unto you. James tells us if we ask amiss it will not be granted to us. So sure we can pray for sick family members. We pray to God, for our family, through Jesus Christ. We don't pray to, for, or through Mary according to the bible.

I have really tried to stay out of this one (other then to agree with two people who do a much better job debating this then I do).

 

But I have to say this. I don't think that I personally have ever, nor do I recall any of the more prolific Catholic posters here, tried to prove someone elses faith was wrong. Yet everytime one of these threads gets started there sure seems to be a number of people who take pleaseue in trying to prove that us poor Catholics have it wrong. You don't want to believe in the basis of The Pope then don't, you don't want to believe in saints then don't, you don't want to believe in infant baptism or any of the other rites and rituals of the Catholic Church then don't BUT please don't have the unmitigated gall to tell us that we are wrong for believeing as we do.

 

As I see it when dealing with religion there are few absolutes. Among them:

No one does or even can KNOW the true nature of God.

No one KNOWS how He wants us to express and practice our belief in Him.

 

By definition faith means believing in something that can't be proven and NONE of our religious beliefs can be proven (or disproven) by any man.

I have really tried to stay out of this one (other then to agree with two people who do a much better job debating this then I do).

 

But I have to say this. I don't think that I personally have ever, nor do I recall any of the more prolific Catholic posters here, tried to prove someone elses faith was wrong. Yet everytime one of these threads gets started there sure seems to be a number of people who take pleaseue in trying to prove that us poor Catholics have it wrong. You don't want to believe in the basis of The Pope then don't, you don't want to believe in saints then don't, you don't want to believe in infant baptism or any of the other rites and rituals of the Catholic Church then don't BUT please don't have the unmitigated gall to tell us that we are wrong for believeing as we do.

 

As I see it when dealing with religion there are few absolutes. Among them:

No one does or even can KNOW the true nature of God.

No one KNOWS how He wants us to express and practice our belief in Him.

 

By definition faith means believing in something that can't be proven and NONE of our religious beliefs can be proven (or disproven) by any man.

 

I have to agree with everything that you say in this one, AllTell. I think my previous post on why some non-Catholics have a disdain for the Pope goes along well with it.

 

I've never understood why some denominations or more particularly individuals that belong to them show a, for lack of a better word, disdain for the Pope. If you are not Catholic, I understand that you do not put the same emphasis or importance on him that a Catholic does. However, why the dislike for him? He doesn't effect YOUR religion, if you don't consider him holy.

I have to agree with everything that you say in this one, AllTell. I think my previous post on why some non-Catholics have a disdain for the Pope goes along well with it.

I think that sometimes what Catholics especially in discussions in this forum perceive as disdain for the Pope is merely another side asking questions and providing scripture that perhaps presents another view than a Church headed by the Pope. I personally have no angst towards the Pope or the Catholic church. I simply don't understand it. I hope that you don't consider that "disdain".

I have to agree with everything that you say in this one, AllTell. I think my previous post on why some non-Catholics have a disdain for the Pope goes along well with it.

 

I think if you go back and count what you consider posts that show disdain for the Pope, you'll find very few that actually show any hostility. Most are merely disagreeing with his role in the Church, not with the man himself.