Is asking for prayers and requesting mediation actually the same?

I don't see the difference.

For those of you that are speaking out against asking for the prayers of the Saints, what do these passages mean?

 

Tim 2: 1-2- "First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity."

 

This says that we ask for the prayers of others- why shouldn't we ask for the prayers of those Christians who have already been sanctified in Heaven?

 

Anyways, the following passage says that the saints in heaven pray for us, and there prayers will be there at the end of time.

Rev 5:8- "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints"

For the last time, you should pray:

 

To - the Father

For - yourself, someone else, etc.

Through/ In the Name of - Jesus Christ

 

Heb 9:23-25

23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them

Intercessory prayer. You intercede on someone's behalf. I don't think that I'll get into the semantics of it all, but I can pray for you and you can pray for me and have access to the Father through what Christ did for us on the cross. I don't believe that I have to have anyone but Christ mediate for me. And that's why I end my prayer no matter what it's for with "in Christ's name". I don't believe that I need the Pope, nor Peter, nor Mary, nor my grandmother, who is in Heaven as we speak to mediate. I have no problem if you want Mary to plead on your behalf, I just find nowhere in scripture where that is written. However, if you don't believe the Bible as truth cover to cover, we have no common ground for debate.

This thread is about the Pope, not other aspects of Catholicism.

This thread is about the Pope, not other aspects of Catholicism.

While I feel it is all related, I'm happy you came and did that, because I'm getting confused and overextended :lol:

To me, believing in Sola Scriptura can be very convenient, because you can say "show me scripture" when someone provides a different belief then yours, and you can say "you are reading it in the wrong context" when someone provides scripture that is different than what you see.

 

This is why the idea of Sola Scriptura does not sit well with me. I am sure that the Lord Almighty knew fine that The Good Book would cause many disagreements among Christians for centuries. IMO, this is why His Son, Jesus Christ, set up a Church built on Peter and the apostles, with leaders to show us the true way to follow Christ.

 

Conversely, the opposing view is convenient because it allows men to make their own rules independent of the authority of the Bible. How do we know they're truly receiving inspirations from God when they forbid priests to marry? We just have to take their word for it. To me, that's a bigger leap of faith than believing in sola scriptura.

 

Question: Has the Catholic Church leadership ever instituted a rule or command that was later changed or rescinded?

 

I am sure the Lord knew that men would have disagreements over the Bible because men disagree on everything. We're a fallen creature, tainted by sin...there will be no perfect harmony among men until the New Heavens and New Earth. That is not an adequate argument against sola scriptura, IMO.

Conversely, the opposing view is convenient because it allows men to make their own rules independent of the authority of the Bible. How do we know they're truly receiving inspirations from God when they forbid priests to marry? We just have to take their word for it. To me, that's a bigger leap of faith than believing in sola scriptura.

 

Question: Has the Catholic Church leadership ever instituted a rule or command that was later changed or rescinded?

 

I am sure the Lord knew that men would have disagreements over the Bible because men disagree on everything. We're a fallen creature, tainted by sin...there will be no perfect harmony among men until the New Heavens and New Earth. That is not an adequate argument against sola scriptura, IMO.

 

PM will be sent because it is off topic.

I've never understood why some denominations or more particularly individuals that belong to them show a, for lack of a better word, disdain for the Pope. If you are not Catholic, I understand that you do not put the same emphasis or importance on him that a Catholic does. However, why the dislike for him? He doesn't effect YOUR religion, if you don't consider him holy.

 

"There are not fifteen people in the entire world today that truly hate the Catholic Church. There are millions who hate what they wrongly believe the Catholic Church to be."

-Thomas Merton

Maybe disdain is not the correct word but the impression I get is that you try with ghusto to show everything you can to prove you are right and we are wrong. Maybe I'm just oversensative but ever since being told to my face by a person I considerd (past tense) a friend that I was going to Hades because I was Catholic I tend to get my hackles up when someone tries to disprove tenents of my religion.

 

I think that's a two-way street. There are Catholics who feel the same way about Protestants. In fact, wasn't there a bit of controversy about a statement the pope made along that lines in recent months?

 

A non-Catholic could easily get the same impression that the Catholics are trying with all their gusto to prove that they are right and we are wrong.

 

I have no desire to prove Catholics wrong. I just want to support my beliefs and give evidence for them. I don't like these discussions because they generally deteriorate into a "my religion is better than yours" and I don't see how that's productive in any way.

I have to agree with everything that you say in this one, AllTell. I think my previous post on why some non-Catholics have a disdain for the Pope goes along well with it.

 

Also, are we forgetting the Pope's message about the "one true Church", stating that Protestant and other denominations would most likely not achieve Heaven?

 

I tend to forget this because I, personally, find no fault with him believing that. I feel that everyone should research their faith enough to be certain that it is the best if not the only way.

 

I bring this up only as a rebuttal to those who feel the Pope is being unfairly criticized. Sauce for the goose.....................

Sorry, 5W, your post was not showing when I started typing. You said it well.

Also, are we forgetting the Pope's message about the "one true Church", stating that Protestant and other denominations would most likely not achieve Heaven?

 

I tend to forget this because I, personally, find no fault with him believing that. I feel that everyone should research their faith enough to be certain that it is the best if not the only way.

That's not what he said....in fact, you started the thread and the Catholics in that thread adequately described what he said, and how it was misinterpreted by media outlets.

 

What he meant is still "controversial", but it is NOT what we Catholic believe. We Catholics believe that other denominations can get to heaven, but here is a more accurate description of our viewpoint:

 

When Benedict said that other denominations do not have the means to salvation, he did not mean that non-Catholics can not go to Heaven. What he is saying is that without the Catholic Church, there would be no salvation for anyone.

 

Jesus gave his life to open the gates of Heaven, and he founded a Church to continue His sacrifice- in the Holy Eucharist- to keep those gates of Heaven open.

Without Jesus death on the cross there would be no salvation for everyone.The Catholic Church has nothing to do with it.

Without Jesus death on the cross there would be no salvation for everyone.The Catholic Church has nothing to do with it.

 

I think what CCH is saying is that the Catholic church is the original church, and therefor is responsible for the initial spread of Christianity.

 

BTW, score goes

 

Catholics 7

Heretics 5