Track The Reds (Week 15)

[UKMustangFan]

Why? They are both paid to produce runs batting in the 4th, 5th or 6th spots.

 

Why does the other things matter?

 

Defense would, I give you that. But offensively, they are paid to produce runs. Both of them. One is considered one of the greatest RBI men in Reds history but he is very similar in his stats for Dunner over the last 3 years. You have agreed with that.

 

 

The position they play definitely matters especially if you're dealing with a catcher, as I'm assuming you're still talking about Bench. The era they played in matters a great deal regarding the pitching they went up against, which was much better in the 70's than it is nowadays.

[ladiesbballcoach]

The position they play definitely matters especially if you're dealing with a catcher, as I'm assuming you're still talking about Bench. The era they played in matters a great deal regarding the pitching they went up against, which was much better in the 70's than it is nowadays.

 

Assumption wrong.

 

Let me add to your qualifications that the non-Dunn player played with a lot better lineup and probably had many more opportunities to produce runs than Dunner has had the past 3 years.

 

AND YET, their numbers as you indicated "pretty much identical."

[HOMELESS CAMEL]

Bench

 

Batting Average .273

Home Runs 153

RBI 506

OB .337

Slugg .494

Runs 414

 

Dudd

 

Batting Average .242

Home Runs 179

RBI 423

OB .378

Slugg .503

Runs 465

 

I know there is no reason to even have this discussion, but since someone else wanted to bring it up, here you go.

 

These are their first full 5 years in the league. Bench played 25 games his first year, Dudd played 66, I threw those out and went by the next 5 full years.

 

Just stunning when looking at how many more home runs Dudd hit, then you see he has far, FAR less RBI's. Dudd's OBP is higher because of more walks, but Bench struck out far less than Donkey.

 

Let's pick out a bad year that Ripken had and compare Hairston or Keppinger to him while we're at it.

[LRCW]

Why? They are both paid to produce runs batting in the 4th, 5th or 6th spots.

 

Why does the other things matter?

 

Defense would, I give you that. But offensively, they are paid to produce runs. Both of them. One is considered one of the greatest RBI men in Reds history but he is very similar in his stats for Dunner over the last 3 years. You have agreed with that.

 

 

I'm a big Adam Dunn fan, but it's not a fair comparison to compare his numbers to those of Bench or Perez. Those two were surround by bats all thru the lineup that took away numerous RBI's from them. You also had Foster, Morgan, Griffy and Rose driving in numerous runs.

[UKMustangFan]

Bench

 

Batting Average .273

Home Runs 153

RBI 506

OB .337

Slugg .494

Runs 414

 

Dudd

 

Batting Average .242

Home Runs 179

RBI 423

OB .378

Slugg .503

Runs 465

 

I know there is no reason to even have this discussion, but since someone else wanted to bring it up, here you go.

 

These are their first full 5 years in the league. Bench played 25 games his first year, Dudd played 66, I threw those out and went by the next 5 full years.

 

Just stunning when looking at how many more home runs Dudd hit, then you see he has far, FAR less RBI's. Dudd's OBP is higher because of more walks, but Bench struck out far less than Donkey.

 

Let's pick out a bad year that Ripken had and compare Hairston or Keppinger to him while we're at it.

 

 

Dudd...I like that. I think I may start using it.

[HOMELESS CAMEL]

I'm a big Adam Dunn fan, but it's not a fair comparison to compare his numbers to those of Bench or Perez. Those two were surround by bats all thru the lineup that took away numerous RBI's from them. You also had Foster, Morgan, Griffy and Rose driving in numerous runs.

 

Yep and Bench still drove in close to 90 runs more than Dudd in their first five years. Even with that lineup.

 

I can't wait til he is gone, he is a cancer on this team. With him gone the Reds will go from losing 9-3 to 9-1. I can live with that.

[LRCW]

Yep and Bench still drove in close to 90 runs more than Dudd in their first five years. Even with that lineup.

 

I can't wait til he is gone, he is a cancer on this team. With him gone the Reds will go from losing 9-3 tp 9-1. I can live with that.

 

 

How can you say he's a caner on the team? Are you in the clubhosue? From all reports I've read Adam Dunn is very popular among his teammates.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Bench

 

Batting Average .273

Home Runs 153

RBI 506

OB .337

Slugg .494

Runs 414

 

Dudd

 

Batting Average .242

Home Runs 179

RBI 423

OB .378

Slugg .503

Runs 465

 

I know there is no reason to even have this discussion, but since someone else wanted to bring it up, here you go.

 

These are their first full 5 years in the league. Bench played 25 games his first year, Dudd played 66, I threw those out and went by the next 5 full years.

 

Just stunning when looking at how many more home runs Dudd hit, then you see he has far, FAR less RBI's. Dudd's OBP is higher because of more walks, but Bench struck out far less than Donkey.

 

Let's pick out a bad year that Ripken had and compare Hairston or Keppinger to him while we're at it.

 

I'm a big Adam Dunn fan, but it's not a fair comparison to compare his numbers to those of Bench or Perez. Those two were surround by bats all thru the lineup that took away numerous RBI's from them. You also had Foster, Morgan, Griffy and Rose driving in numerous runs.

 

As LRCW points out and I alluded to, Bench and Perez (that was the faceless stats that I listed. The years for him were 1974, 75, 76 and yet Dunn was identical with his production to Perez.), there were many, many, many more chances for RBI's for Bench and Perez than there has been for Dunn.

 

Has Dunn lived up to my expectations for him? Absolutley not. I thought he was going to be a freak but to say he has not produced is wrong.

 

To say he has not lived up to expectations for him, I think is fair.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Dudd...I like that. I think I may start using it.

 

It is your right to be wrong.:thumb:

[UKMustangFan]

How can you say he's a caner on the team? Are you in the clubhosue? From all reports I've read Adam Dunn is very popular among his teammates.

 

I definitely don't think he's a cancer by any means, just not the type of player you're ever going to win with.

[LRCW]

As LRCW points out and I alluded to, Bench and Perez (that was the faceless stats that I listed. The years for him were 1974, 75, 76 and yet Dunn was identical with his production to Perez.), there were many, many, many more chances for RBI's for Bench and Perez than there has been for Dunn.

 

Has Dunn lived up to my expectations for him? Absolutley not. I thought he was going to be a freak but to say he has not produced is wrong.

 

To say he has not lived up to expectations for him, I think is fair.

 

 

How can you say there were many, many more chances for RBI's for Bench and Dunn? They lost tons of RBI chances to each other and Foster, Morgan, Griffey, Rose.

[ladiesbballcoach]

How can you say there were many, many more chances for RBI's for Bench and Dunn? They lost tons of RBI chances to each other and Foster, Morgan, Griffey, Rose.

 

I can pull up the batting averages and onbase % of the Reds top 3-4 hitters for those time periods compared to the same of the Reds leadoff hitters the past 3 years, but do I really need to?????

 

Rose, Morgan, Griffey (dad) were on base a lot more than Freel, Jr, and whomever else it was for Dunn in 2005-2007.

[LRCW]

I can pull up the batting averages and onbase % of the Reds top 3-4 hitters for those time periods compared to the same of the Reds leadoff hitters the past 3 years, but do I really need to?????

 

Rose, Morgan, Griffey (dad) were on base a lot more than Freel, Jr, and whomever else it was for Dunn in 2005-2007.

 

 

There's no doubt about that, but those three were also knocking in tons of runs along with the others mentioned. Perez hit around .285 with runners in scoring position. Let me ask you this. Who would you want at the plate in an RBI situation when they were in their prime? Perez, Bench, Foster or Dunn?

[stickymitts]

One could argue that Dunn would not see as many good pitches based on who was hitting around him. You could also counter that by wondering why you'd pitch around a guy that strikes out 180 times per year...

[ladiesbballcoach]

There's no doubt about that, but those three were also knocking in tons of runs along with the others mentioned. Perez hit around .285 with runners in scoring position. Let me ask you this. Who would you want at the plate in an RBI situation when they were in their prime? Perez, Bench, Foster or Dunn?

 

I understand your question but at the end of the season, NOT in a single situation, Dunn and Perez were producing similar numbers all the while Dunn was in a much inferior lineup.

 

Morgan to answer your question.