June 23, 200818 yr Yea your right it's not the best right now. But if you take out his last two starts or so (which I do realize you can't just "take them out") he has been the Ace he always was besides the wins. Harang's last 5 starts: 5 innings 10 Hits 5 ER 7 innings 4 Hits 1 ER 5.1 innings 11 Hits 7 ER 6 innings 9 Hits 3 ER 4 innings 10 Hits 6 ER The start before his relief outing in SD. 5.1 innings 10 Hits 6 ER. He started struggling before his relief experience.
June 23, 200818 yr Author Harang's last 5 starts: 5 innings 10 Hits 5 ER 7 innings 4 Hits 1 ER 5.1 innings 11 Hits 7 ER 6 innings 9 Hits 3 ER 4 innings 10 Hits 6 ER The start before his relief outing in SD. 5.1 innings 10 Hits 6 ER. He started struggling before his relief experience. It's just easier to blame Harrang's struggles on that 1 relief appearance though.:sssh:
June 23, 200818 yr It's just easier to blame Harrang's struggles on that 1 relief appearance though.:sssh: It's very easy to blame it on that. Harang's not the type of guy to hurt the team. If he thought at all the something physical was wrong then he'd say something. I think it's more on the mechanics/mental side of things.
June 23, 200818 yr Bailey's troubles lie between his ears. Harang's situation is totally different--dismiss it if you want but he shows all the classic symptoms of a tired arm. :thumb::thumb: On both points made here. Bailey is an attitude problem, is his own worse enemy and I would be very tempted to trade him.
June 23, 200818 yr Harang's problem to me is he is not using his height to his advantage like he has in the past. Instead he is getting a little lower than normal which can throw off his control as well as explain the drop in velocity.
June 23, 200818 yr Harang's problem to me is he is not using his height to his advantage like he has in the past. Instead he is getting a little lower than normal which can throw off his control as well as explain the drop in velocity. You'd think a major league pitching coach would pick up on some thing as simple as that.
June 23, 200818 yr It's very easy to blame it on that. Harang's not the type of guy to hurt the team. If he thought at all the something physical was wrong then he'd say something. I think it's more on the mechanics/mental side of things. I don't think he's hurt I think his arm is tired.
June 23, 200818 yr You'd think a major league pitching coach would pick up on some thing as simple as that. :thumb: If it were simply mechanical it would have been spotted on tape long before now. To say that his problems started before the relief appearance isn't exactly fair. All pitchers have a bad game from time to time. If his mechanics were the cause and his downhill spiral started before the relief appearance how does one account for his absolutely dominating performance in the relief appearance? He had great stuff that day. It seems pretty simple what happened--he's a workhorse and a great team player who came into the game on short rest and went as hard as he could for too long. He's got a tired, if not injured arm as a result and won't be the same until he gets some time off.
June 23, 200818 yr No, but I won't praise him like some on here do. And it's not all to blame on run support (at least for this year) Have you missed his last two seasons?
June 23, 200818 yr Author :thumb: If it were simply mechanical it would have been spotted on tape long before now. To say that his problems started before the relief appearance isn't exactly fair. All pitchers have a bad game from time to time. If his mechanics were the cause and his downhill spiral started before the relief appearance how does one account for his absolutely dominating performance in the relief appearance? He had great stuff that day. It seems pretty simple what happened--he's a workhorse and a great team player who came into the game on short rest and went as hard as he could for too long. He's got a tired, if not injured arm as a result and won't be the same until he gets some time off. And neither is it to blame his continuing struggles on that 1 appearance.
June 23, 200818 yr Harang's last 5 starts: 5 innings 10 Hits 5 ER 7 innings 4 Hits 1 ER 5.1 innings 11 Hits 7 ER 6 innings 9 Hits 3 ER 4 innings 10 Hits 6 ER The start before his relief outing in SD. 5.1 innings 10 Hits 6 ER. He started struggling before his relief experience. In his six starts before the last one you reference, Harang had averaged seven innings per start with an ERA under 3.00 ... in othe words, before the relief outing, he had one bad start out of seven. Since then, he's had three horrible starts in five outings.
June 23, 200818 yr He has had plenty of time to get over that. You don't see that bothering Edison Volquez now do you? You might have an arguement if every game he has pitched since then has been bad but there has been atleast one good one.Volquez only threw two innings in that game at San Diego. Harang threw four innings a day after a 60-pitch bullpen session. Their two circumstances aren't identical.
June 23, 200818 yr Author In his six starts before the last one you reference, Harang had averaged seven innings per start with an ERA under 3.00 ... in othe words, before the relief outing, he had one bad start out of seven. Since then, he's had three horrible starts in five outings. If you look at the innings he had pitched before that relief appearance you'll see that he pitched games going 7,8,6,8,7.1,6,7,7,7...Then the last start before the relief appearance was 5.1 and he gave up 5 runs on 10 hits. I would suggest that he was already tired and wore down a little bit as a result of those innings. Yes pitchers go like that a lot but he has been a workhorse the last couple of years and I think that relief appearance just put it over the top. It wasn't the whole cake but it was the icing on the cake.
June 23, 200818 yr And neither is it to blame his continuing struggles on that 1 appearance. Unless he has a dead arm and needs 10 days rest.
June 23, 200818 yr Author Unless he has a dead arm and needs 10 days rest. :confused: Then just sit him. It's not like the Reds are fighting for the Division or anything. all I said was his struggles are not 100% to blame on that 1 relief appearance. Yes, it probably hurt that he pitched 4 innings that game but to solely blame it on that is ridiculous. If he has a dead arm then the coaching staff should be able to realize that and rest him to preserve him for the long term. If they would skip a start (not like they'd be losing anything) then I think he could take that time to rest his arm and get back in focus.
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