HB - Your statistics are only validation for the point made in post 296.

 

I disagree. Those stats do not provide any evidence that blacks were committing more crimes, just that they were being arrested more, searched more, and threatened with use of violence more. It does not say that they were caught with drugs more than whites, or broke the law more.

I disagree. Those stats do not provide any evidence that blacks were committing more crimes, just that they were being arrested more, searched more, and threatened with use of violence more. It does not say that they were caught with drugs more than whites, or broke the law more.

 

I'd love to get the Ru's thoughts on this matter. From my discussions with police officers on the subject of profiling (which I think is the point you are making) is that profiling is a valid technique based on their past experiences involving criminals in certain locations. But this is probably better addressed in a separate thread involving why so many blacks are in jail and why blacks are arrested more, searched more and threatened with the use of violence more.

I've seen this a lot from some of the many posts on this thread.

 

WHY does the person need to CHANGE churches?

 

That's sometimes the cowards way out. Sometimes it is much more beneficial to the kingdom of God to stay within a church and try to effect change in some Christ like fashion. Whether that is through one on one discourse and dialogue or just as a reminder that some of these old ideas (any racial stereotype whether from Anglo, African or Hispanic, et al) are not going to be readily accepted or laughed at anymore.

 

For example, I have a couple of parishoners who tend to look jaded at other races. So whenever they make blanket stereotypes of someone because of race I tend to redirect it so they look like the idiot they are. They don't always see the point but others listening do.

 

Running away is not always the answer and it's often too easy with faith issues to say, "I'll take my faith shopping elsewhere."

 

I think we can all agree that many of the things Rev. Wright said were inappropriate at the very least. If that was the case, I have one question:

 

What change did Obama try to effect in a Christ like fashion?

:thumb:

I think we can all agree that many of the things Rev. Wright said were inappropriate at the very least. If that was the case, I have one question:

 

What change did Obama try to effect in a Christ like fashion?

 

Touche!

I think we can all agree that many of the things Rev. Wright said were inappropriate at the very least. If that was the case, I have one question:

 

What change did Obama try to effect in a Christ like fashion?

We aren't privy to his private conversations, are we?

I think we can all agree that many of the things Rev. Wright said were inappropriate at the very least. If that was the case, I have one question:

 

What change did Obama try to effect in a Christ like fashion?

 

I don't know that he did. I don't believe I STATED that he did.

 

I spoke of what was the RIGHT thing to do.

 

I spoke of a hypothetical situation where the absolutist statement by Run to State was to LEAVE.

 

 

Contrary to some on here, I am NOT an Obama supporter. I just like to point out to some who make absolutist statements that they don't all apply evenly and equally to every scenario. :thumb:

:thumb:

 

Touche!

 

Whatever.

 

Do you actually have an opinion to what lynks was saying or do you just deal with one phrase "atta boys?"

 

So what about my expression concerning the notion that not all of us are called to change churches when disagreement arises is a conflict for you????

I think racism can be used as a sword...or as a shield. A person's motives for wielding the sword or raising the shield, like with anything else, can be pure or they can be evil. And maybe that's where we really need to look, if we want to find the truth.

We aren't privy to his private conversations, are we?

 

No we aren't.

 

However, I would think though that if I were in Obama's situation, and if I had attempted to make changes in a Chirst like fashion, that I would be mentioning those atempts at change now. It would be an excellent defense for those questioning his judgement in staying at this church for 20 years. And would have likely put the issue to rest early on. I just haven't heard anything like that from Sen. Obama. Do you see where I am coming from on this? I promise you I am not out to get the Senator on this topic. I just question his judgement on this issue.

I'd love to get the Ru's thoughts on this matter. From my discussions with police officers on the subject of profiling (which I think is the point you are making) is that profiling is a valid technique based on their past experiences involving criminals in certain locations. But this is probably better addressed in a separate thread involving why so many blacks are in jail and why blacks are arrested more, searched more and threatened with the use of violence more.

 

Many times people try to defend racial profiling by saying that it results in more arrests. Well of course it does! If Police spend more time in a particular area, of course they will arrest more people there. Therefore they can provide statistics that way to support the need to profile, right? Well, what if they decided to spend that time in other areas instead? The arrest rates for the particular area being profiled would go likely go down.

 

Arrest rates are higher in profiled areas because those areas are patrolled more and because those people are profiled. If police stopped every white person because they were white, they would arrest a lot more white people as well.

The attorney general's report dismissed this comparison with an argument that has become de rigueur among the anti-racial profiling crowd, even in Congress: the "circularity" argument. Arrest and conviction data for drugs and weapons are virtually meaningless, said Verniero. They tell you nothing about the world and everything about the false stereotypes that guide the police. If the police find more contraband on blacks and Hispanics, that is merely because they are looking harder for it, driven by prejudiced assumptions. If the police were to target whites with as much enforcement zeal, goes this reasoning, they would find comparable levels of criminality. David Harris, a University of Toledo law school professor and the leading expert for the anti-profiling forces, makes this preposterous argument. An enforcement effort directed at 40-year-old white law professors, he assures a Senate subcommittee, would yield noticeable busts. The disproportionate minority arrests then reinforce the initial, racist stereotypes, and the vicious cycle begins all over again—too many minorities arrested, too many whites going free.

 

LINK

If Police spend more time in a particular area, of course they will arrest more people there. Therefore they can provide statistics that way to support the need to profile, right? Well, what if they decided to spend that time in other areas instead? The arrest rates for the particular area being profiled would go likely go down.

And the crime rate would skyrocket! Somehow, I don't think "let's patrol where the crime isn't likely to happen" is a very good policing strategy. :lol:

Whatever.

 

Do you actually have an opinion to what lynks was saying or do you just deal with one phrase "atta boys?"

 

So what about my expression concerning the notion that not all of us are called to change churches when disagreement arises is a conflict for you????

 

 

Lighten up Hatz---If I was a member of a church that began saying or teaching things that I was not in agreement with I would approach the pastor in a respectful fashion and ask for clarification so that I was sure I understood where he was coming from . . . if I didn't agree and if I sensed that most of the congregation felt the same way I would leave . . . I would find a church that aligned with what was scriptural and right. Now, keep in mind that if I attend a Baptist church I expect to here Baptist doctrine, a Methodist church---Methodist doctrine and so on. I would probably have done some research on this Trinity Church of Christ and had an idea of their theology before attending. I am sure Obama was completely aware of their stance before going for the first time. And to stay there 20 years without really knowing what was taught and believed is implausible at best and an out and out lie at worst. And by the way, there is such a thing as absolute truth . . . and these precepts are addressed in the Word of God . . . it is not just what feels good, or seems right to an individual.

And the crime rate would skyrocket! Somehow, I don't think "let's patrol where the crime isn't likely to happen" is a very good policing strategy. :lol:

 

If there is an area where crime is known to happen, fine patrol that area. That doesn't mean that every black or latino person should be treated as a criminal, which in some cases is exactly what happens. If white people were watched as closely as blacks and latino's then whites would be arrested just as much. That does not happen though.

Back on topic...

 

Barack Obama this week gave the best political speech since John Kennedy talked about his Catholicism in Houston in 1960, and it derived power from something most unusual in modern politics: an acknowledgment of complexity, nuance and legitimate grievances on many sides. It was not a sound bite, but a symphony.

...

Many well-meaning Americans perceive Mr. Wright as fundamentally a hate-monger who preaches antagonism toward whites. But those who know his church say that is an unrecognizable caricature: He is a complex figure and sometimes a reckless speaker, but one of his central messages is not anti-white hostility but black self-reliance.

 

“The big thing for Wright is hope,” said Martin Marty, one of America’s foremost theologians, who has known the Rev. Wright for 35 years and attended many of his services. “You hear ‘hope, hope, hope.’ Lots of ordinary people are there, and they’re there not to blast the whites. They’re there to get hope.”

 

Professor Marty said that as a white person, he sticks out in the largely black congregation but is always greeted with warmth and hospitality. “It’s not anti-white,” he said. “I don’t know anybody who’s white who walks out of there not feeling affirmed.”